# A new trend...? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Homebrew Discussion\ **Created:** [December 13, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651 "2011-12-13T20:42:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tschmidlin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/tschmidlin/32/3857_2.png) [@tschmidlin](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/tschmidlin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 11:11pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/21 "2011-12-13T23:11:42Z")
> [@punatic](#): > > > [@denny](#): > > > > The issue is that since the beer is at least partially carbed in the container, **cans wouldn’t have their full strength when they were stacked pallet upon pallet.** > > > [@tschmidlin](#): > > > > > [@punatic](#): > > > > > > Since the cans are full of (essentially) water, and water is virtually incompressible, I’m surprised that this would be a problem. > > > > The water doesn’t compress, but the headspace does.  But more importantly, the pressure can still increase without the water compressing, and the pressure bursts the cans. > > So, how does that relate to the filled cans being under-carbed intially? > > (not meaning to be argumentative, just curious) It doesn’t, but the headspace compressing and denting the can relates. 🙂 Or even if it’s not forming a permanent dent, you’d want whatever you are stacking that much weight on to be flat and stable. ---
**Author:** ![punatic](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/punatic/32/13656_2.png) [@punatic](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/punatic)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/22 "2011-12-13T23:17:27Z")
Also, fermenting in the can?  It’s been quite a few years since there has been yeast sediment on the bottom of my SN beers.  They are still bottle-conditioned?  (can-conditioned?) ---
**Author:** ![tschmidlin](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/tschmidlin/32/3857_2.png) [@tschmidlin](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/tschmidlin)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2011, 11:49pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/23 "2011-12-13T23:49:45Z")
> [@punatic](#): > > Also, fermenting in the can?  It’s been quite a few years since there has been yeast sediment on the bottom of my SN beers.  They are still bottle-conditioned?  (can-conditioned?) I guess it’s possible.  I’ve noticed that a lot of craft brewed beer cans are softer than the macro lagers, probably due to the higher carbonation in the lagers.  Maybe that makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![eltharyon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@eltharyon](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/eltharyon)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 1:24am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/24 "2011-12-14T01:24:31Z")
I’m all for SN on the can, Pale ale on the beach and much easier cleanup. ---
**Author:** ![bluesman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@bluesman](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bluesman)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/25 "2011-12-14T01:34:27Z")
A little beer can history… > **[Drinking Beyond the Bottle: A Lush History of Beer Cans - WebUrbanist](https://weburbanist.com/2009/05/24/more-than-packaging-the-history-of-beer-cans/)** > > Beer has come a long way since breweries started experimenting with can packaging nearly 100 years ago. Over the years, collectors have enjoyed many styles. ---
**Author:** ![malzig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ec9cab/32.png) [@malzig](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/malzig)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:02am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/26 "2011-12-14T02:02:34Z")
> [@eltharyon](#): > > I’m all for SN on the can !! ---
**Author:** ![tomsawyer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tomsawyer](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/tomsawyer)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/27 "2011-12-14T02:37:40Z")
> [@malzig](#): > > > [@eltharyon](#): > > > > I’m all for SN on the can > > !! +1 Thats dedication. I just had a pint of canned amber ale from some new little brewery in southern MO, Piney River Brewing.  Pretty tasty stuff and pints are nice.  I would conclude that the can line might be cheaper than a bottle line. ---
**Author:** ![a10t2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/a10t2/32/6257_2.png) [@a10t2](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/a10t2)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 4:15am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/28 "2011-12-14T04:15:23Z")
> [@tomsawyer](#): > > I would conclude that the can line might be cheaper than a bottle line. The up-front costs are actually more, but the per-can production cost is cheaper than bottles. It breaks even after 5,000-20,000 bbl, depending on the scale and the cans/labels used. ---
**Author:** ![phillamb168](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/phillamb168/32/10146_2.png) [@phillamb168](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/phillamb168)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 9:05am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/29 "2011-12-14T09:05:38Z")
> [@a10t2](#): > > > [@tomsawyer](#): > > > > I would conclude that the can line might be cheaper than a bottle line. > > The up-front costs are actually more, but the per-can production cost is cheaper than bottles. It breaks even after **5,000-20,000 bbl** , depending on the scale and the cans/labels used. :o  :-[  ☹ 5,000 bbl… so with my system I’ll break even in… 30 years. ---
**Author:** ![brewmonk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewmonk/32/9761_2.png) [@brewmonk](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/brewmonk)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 10:49am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/30 "2011-12-14T10:49:22Z")
I would think for the most part, cans were symbolic of the BMC beers, while bottles represented more of a craft beer feeling of quality.  Breweries like Surly have been breaking through that stigma.  Admittedly, bottles are more elegant IMHO. Strangely, I’ve never had that mentality with Guinness draught widget cans. Here in Italy, the _mentality_ is that small bottles tend to be lower quality beer and 750 ml champagne bottles are higher quality beer.  That’s not to say you don’t find 33cl Chimay’s, Leffes, etc, but for maketing it seems to be the case.  Most of the artisanal beers I see here are in 750ml’s and most mass produced beers are smaller sizes like 0.5l and 33cl. The light factor gives cans an advantage.  But yeah, I can’t re-use cans for homebrewing.  Ultimately, I pour mine into a glass too, so as long as it’s good beer …  🙂 Although can’s aren’t nearly as helpful in a bar fight.  😃 ---
**Author:** ![phillamb168](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/phillamb168/32/10146_2.png) [@phillamb168](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/phillamb168)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 11:23am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/31 "2011-12-14T11:23:34Z")
> [@brewmonk](#): > > I would think for the most part, cans were symbolic of the BMC beers, while bottles represented more of a craft beer feeling of quality.  Breweries like Surly have been breaking through that stigma.  Admittedly, bottles are more elegant IMHO. > > Strangely, I’ve never had that mentality with Guinness draught widget cans. > > Here in Italy, the _mentality_ is that small bottles tend to be lower quality beer and 750 ml champagne bottles are higher quality beer.  That’s not to say you don’t find 33cl Chimay’s, Leffes, etc, but for maketing it seems to be the case.  Most of the artisanal beers I see here are in 750ml’s and most mass produced beers are smaller sizes like 0.5l and 33cl. > > The light factor gives cans an advantage.  But yeah, I can’t re-use cans for homebrewing.  Ultimately, I pour mine into a glass too, so as long as it’s good beer …  🙂 > > Although can’s aren’t nearly as helpful in a bar fight.  😃 You’ve tried Grado Plato and San Gabriel right? I wondered why we could only get those in 750s. ---
**Author:** ![brewingrover](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewingrover/32/13558_2.png) [@brewingrover](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/brewingrover)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 12:43pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/32 "2011-12-14T12:43:19Z")
The last few start-up breweries in Chicago are only canning. And the Revolution brewpub is working on a production brewery that will have a canning line. They did announce they’re going to have bombers of some of their barrel aged beers, though. Oh, what a happy day it will be when I see Eugene in a can! It’s a long way to the pub for a growler. ---
**Author:** ![mabrungard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mabrungard/32/12430_2.png) [@mabrungard](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mabrungard)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 1:27pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/33 "2011-12-14T13:27:25Z")
The cost of cans has a couple of barbs.  For Sun King in Indy and other craft brewers, the biggest problem is that they can’t just slap a new label on their stock of bottles when they want to push out a new seasonal or specialty.  They usually have to buy a gazillion cans printed with the new beer’s labeling.  That makes it far less appealing to have a canning line if you want to be creative and put out small runs of beer.  In the case of SN, they have 5 beers that are constantly brewed and another 5 that have big enough production to use cans too. If I understand correctly, Sun King has been allowed by the ATF folks to create a generic Sun King can that they can apply another label with the actual beer’s info.  That might make this can issue more appealing for craft brewers with smaller production.  I haven’t seen any of these labeled cans on the shelves yet, so I don’t know that its a reality. ---
**Author:** ![onehoppyguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/onehoppyguy/32/5963_2.png) [@onehoppyguy](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/onehoppyguy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/34 "2011-12-14T13:31:15Z")
If I looked in a cooler and saw my favorite craft beer in a can, I’d just look further. Glass for me, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![brewmichigan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@brewmichigan](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/brewmichigan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 1:33pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/35 "2011-12-14T13:33:30Z")
> [@punatic](#): > > Also, fermenting in the can?  It’s been quite a few years since there has been yeast sediment on the bottom of my SN beers.  They are still bottle-conditioned?  (can-conditioned?) Yes, Sierra still bottle conditions their beers. They have a warehouse devoted to bottle conditioning. It will sit out in the warehouse for a couple weeks before moving off to the store. ---
**Author:** ![phillamb168](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/phillamb168/32/10146_2.png) [@phillamb168](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/phillamb168)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/36 "2011-12-14T13:44:35Z")
> [@](#): > > If I looked in a cooler and saw my favorite craft beer in a can, I’d just look further. Glass for me, thank you. Why? Not trying to prod, I’m genuinely interested, as I’m trying to figure out whether to go bottles or cans right now. I slide between the two about once every two weeks. ---
**Author:** ![onehoppyguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/onehoppyguy/32/5963_2.png) [@onehoppyguy](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/onehoppyguy)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/37 "2011-12-14T14:12:57Z")
> [@phillamb168](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > If I looked in a cooler and saw my favorite craft beer in a can, I’d just look further. Glass for me, thank you. > > Why? Not trying to prod, I’m genuinely interested, as I’m trying to figure out whether to go bottles or cans right now. I slide between the two about once every two weeks. When my tongue hits the edge of that can, all I taste is aluminum. Yes, I can pour it onto a glass and assuming the can is lined, then it won’t be too bad, but I can still taste it. However, I’ve now ruined the convenience of having packaged beer. ---
**Author:** ![majorvices](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/majorvices/32/12825_2.png) [@majorvices](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/majorvices)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:14pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/38 "2011-12-14T14:14:13Z")
Our only instate small packaging micro brewery in Alabama has been in the can for going on 2 years now, and looks like another one of our local breweries is gearing up for canning coming this spring. I definitely don’t think it is a “new trend” but one that has been gaining traction for years and years. I certainly never shy away from canned beer. As everyone else has mentioned, aside from freshness, the portability factor is awesome! ---
**Author:** ![majorvices](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/majorvices/32/12825_2.png) [@majorvices](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/majorvices)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:17pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/39 "2011-12-14T14:17:46Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@phillamb168](#): > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > If I looked in a cooler and saw my favorite craft beer in a can, I’d just look further. Glass for me, thank you. > > > > Why? Not trying to prod, I’m genuinely interested, as I’m trying to figure out whether to go bottles or cans right now. I slide between the two about once every two weeks. > > When my tongue hits the edge of that can, all I taste is aluminum. Yes, I can pour it onto a glass and assuming the can is lined, then it won’t be too bad, but I can still taste it. However, I’ve now ruined the convenience of having packaged beer. OTOH if you are back packing in 8+ miles and you get there and want a beer it sure does become a convenience to actually be able to have one. No way I would ever pack in glass, but cans I do all the time.  :) That said, I still believe there is a prestige factor that is lost in cans. And bottle openers can be bitchin’ cool. And opening a corked belgian style bottle is a ritual I always enjoy. yin and yang all around I guess. ---
**Author:** ![brewmichigan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cdc98d/32.png) [@brewmichigan](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/brewmichigan)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2011, 2:19pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651/40 "2011-12-14T14:19:17Z")
> [@majorvices](#): > > As everyone else has mentioned, aside from freshness, the portability factor is awesome! Portability is my main attraction to the cans. I hate that when I go golfing I can’t buy a “good” beer on the golf course because they have to be in cans. Now I can get a few cans of torpedo on the course and maybe even Two Hearted this coming year  ;D > **[Bell's Brewery Inc. to begin selling beer in cans in 2012](https://www.mlive.com/kalamabrew/2011/03/bells_brewery_inc_to_install_c.html)** > > Bell's Brewery Inc. is planning to install a 500-cans-per-minute canning line by spring of 2012. [Previous page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/a-new-trend/8651.md?page=3)