American Amber...Red Seal

I’ve been having trouble of late mastering this style.  One of my all time favorites is Red Seal - and I would love to capture that malt flavor albeit with a different hop expression.

I’ve tried Denny’s Waldo Lake, Jamil’s Evil Twin and while they made good beers, it wasn’t what I was looking for.

My most recent Amber (exact recipe at home - but 2 row, Munich, C-45, C-120, melanoiden and pale chocolate) turned out to not be an amber at all - sort of in between brown and amber.  An interesting beer, but way off the mark for my goal.

what would you think of this malt bill?

90% 2 row
10% Bairds 75-80L Crystal

at 1.054, it comes out to about 10.7SRM, almost double my house APA recipe color, which seems about right.

just wondering if I shouldn’t go back to simpler is better, seems to be the case with all my other recipes.  could throw a little 120L or carared in there, but I’m looking for some insight.

I have never had Red Seal.

Regarding the Amber that was more like Brown Ale. I would drop the chocolate malt and replace with Carafa Special 3. The Carafa gives color with a lot more mellow flavor. I also like carared. It helps with red color if your into that.

I like an amber that has a sweet finish. I am pretty liberal with the caramel malt. 10-15% of the bill.

Correction - Carared not C45L on that last one:

[quote]Boil Size: 14.90 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.50 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 12.00 gal 
Bottling Volume: 12.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 11.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 44.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 80.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:

Amt                  Name                                    Type          #        %/IBU       
14 lbs 8.0 oz        Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)          Grain        1        64.4 %       
4 lbs                Munich Malt - 10L (6.6 SRM)              Grain        2        17.8 %       
2 lbs 4.0 oz          Carared - 20L (20.0 SRM)                Grain        3        10.0 %       
1 lbs                Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM)              Grain        4        4.4 %       
6.0 oz                Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM)  Grain        5        1.7 %       
6.0 oz                Pale Chocolate Malt (200.0 SRM)          Grain        6        1.7 %       
1.00 oz              Amarillo Gold - 2012 [9.50 %] - First Wo Hop          7        16.9 IBUs   
1.00 oz              Cascade - 2012 [6.40 %] - First Wort 90. Hop          8        12.6 IBUs   
0.50 oz              Magnum - 2012 [12.20 %] - Boil 60.0 min  Hop          9        10.2 IBUs   
1.00 oz              Amarillo Gold - 2012 [9.50 %] - Boil 5.0 Hop          10      2.9 IBUs     
1.00 oz              Cascade - 2012 [6.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min  Hop          11      2.1 IBUs     
1.50 oz              Amarillo Gold - 2012 [9.50 %] - Steep/Wh Hop          12      0.0 IBUs     
1.50 oz              Cascade - 2012 [6.40 %] - Steep/Whirlpoo Hop          13      0.0 IBUs     
1.0 pkg              American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [124.21 Yeast        14      -

[/quote]

not sure if Carafa is the answer, or scrapping and going in a new direction?

I used to buy Red Seal pretty regularly, Paul. Loved the stuff. I like the idea of simplifying. I think the 90/10 2- row/C75-80 sounds good, or even a little less of the Baird’s along with some Munich and adjust SRM with Midnight Wheat or Carafa III if need be. I like the hop schedule there. I don’t think trying it with 1450 is a bad idea either though, for a slightly fuller mouthfeel.

I was at a pub a long time ago that got a fresh keg of Red Seal - just a great beer fresh. Put the semi-fresh stuff we got here in bottles to shame. I may have had a few too many. Anyway, I think simpler might be better here.

If you’re looking for a more simple grain bill like Jon suggests, I’ve made an Amber with Two-row, Maris Otter, and Crystal 120 (50/40/10). Also, I like hop bursting in an Amber.