# Best dry yeast for the Bohemian or Czech Pilsner style? **URL:** \ **Category:** Ingredients\ **Created:** [March 25, 2020, 1:17pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692 "2020-03-25T13:17:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hopfenundmalz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hopfenundmalz/32/11193_2.png) [@hopfenundmalz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hopfenundmalz)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/41 "2020-04-28T16:12:38Z")
From the Keller at PU. They pitch at 5C in the open wood tanks. [![Google Photos](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/3X/c/8/c8718662f2d9f7fb3d05665fb7dcf6d861b34ad8.jpeg "New item by Jeff Rankert") ](https://photos.app.goo.gl/hjjGnwj1XxuuYNE26) ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Is\_Money](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/silver_is_money/32/12216_2.png) [@Silver\_Is\_Money](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Silver_Is_Money)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/42 "2020-04-28T17:52:10Z")
> [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > From the Keller at PU. They pitch at 5C in the open wood tanks. Thanks much!  That converts to 41 degrees F. ---
**Author:** ![hopfenundmalz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hopfenundmalz/32/11193_2.png) [@hopfenundmalz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hopfenundmalz)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2020, 6:39pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/43 "2020-04-28T18:39:04Z")
Don’t know what they do in the CCVs the production beer ferments in. 5C/41F is pretty cold, it ramps up to 8C over 7 days, so if that was the end it got to 46.4F, still on the cool side. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Brewer\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@Northern\_Brewer\_1](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Northern_Brewer_1)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2020, 10:19am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/44 "2020-04-29T10:19:32Z")
> [@Silver\_Is\_Money](#): > > I emailed Fermentis and asked their opinion as to which of their yeasts is considered most appropriate for Czech (Bohemian) Pilsner, and their reply was S-23. Also worth noting that the latest DNA sequencing results suggests S-23 is a Frohberg yeast that is the closest known relative to Wyeast 2001-PC “Pilsner Urquell H-Strain” Almost as related are WLP940 Mexican Lager and WLP515 Antwerp Ale, it’s not surprising that a famous yeast would end up being exported to other countries. ---
**Author:** ![Stand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Stand](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Stand)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2020, 3:24pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/45 "2020-04-30T15:24:41Z")
I recently made two versions of my house beer back to back with different hops to do a comparison, and until I introduced a palate cleanser I couldn’t tell the difference.  First impression of the first beer was fine, but the second was impossible. Eating a piece of bread made a big difference. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Is\_Money](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/silver_is_money/32/12216_2.png) [@Silver\_Is\_Money](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Silver_Is_Money)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2020, 3:33pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/46 "2020-04-30T15:33:15Z")
> [@denny](#): > > You’re not using PU yeast, right? So why try to force it into a PU fermentation schedule? Genetically it appears (from referencing Suregork) you can’t get much closer to the H-Strain in a dry yeast than you will by choosing S-23. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/1X/f1a2211dcb353b921ed70873794a31db2031eccc.png) [@system](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2020, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/47 "2020-05-05T13:31:35Z")
> [@denny](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@dmtaylor](#): > > > > > > But it is squeaky clean, lets all the malt shine through loud and clear, at least at cold ~50 F temperature. > > > > That is how I describe 34/70…very clean and neutral, letting the malt shine through. Maybe I’m wrong? > > You’re not wrong for you.  There can be differences in taste perception due to physiology, culture, experience and other things. Must be a cultural thing…as my ancestors are Bohemian, and Czech. My grandparents spoke Bohemian. ---
**Author:** ![hopfenundmalz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hopfenundmalz/32/11193_2.png) [@hopfenundmalz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hopfenundmalz)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2020, 2:57pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/48 "2020-05-05T14:57:18Z")
There was a recent podcast by Escarpment Labs featuring Kristoffer Krogerus talking about lager yeast genetics. One take away was that all of the commercial lager strains from White Labs and Wyeast are Frohburg strains. No Saaz strains are available. The Czech Brewers use Frohburg strains. Saaz strains are available through the yeast collections, for a price. Years back I had read that Frohburg were used by German brewers, Saaz by Czech Brewers, but that was wrong. Thought I would put this here. There genetic differences in lager yeast are small compared to ale yeasts. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Brewer\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7c8e57/32.png) [@Northern\_Brewer\_1](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Northern_Brewer_1)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/49 "2020-05-08T10:10:28Z")
> [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > all of the commercial lager strains from White Labs and Wyeast are Frohburg strains. No Saaz strains are available. The Czech Brewers use Frohburg strains. No Saaz strains are available from certain US homebrew yeast labs. That doesn’t mean they’re not used commercially, it just reflects decisions made by CUHYL when choosing strains, in the same way as their selections of British yeast do not reflect the fact that around half of British commercial brewing yeast strains are phenolic to some degree. > [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > Years back I had read that Frohburg were used by German brewers, Saaz by Czech Brewers, but that was wrong. > > Thought I would put this here. There genetic differences in lager yeast are small compared to ale yeasts. True within the families, but I’d suggest the fact that Saaz have three sets of chromosomes and Frohberg have four sets is a pretty major genetic difference! It seems that Saaz originated in samples sent out by Carlsberg and Frohberg originated at Heineken (as far as we can tell), presumably reflecting random selections made of ??Czech?? original multistrains. ---
**Author:** ![Silver\_Is\_Money](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/silver_is_money/32/12216_2.png) [@Silver\_Is\_Money](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Silver_Is_Money)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 11:27am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/50 "2020-05-08T11:27:50Z")
> [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > There was a recent podcast by Escarpment Labs featuring Kristoffer Krogerus talking about lager yeast genetics. One take away was that all of the commercial lager strains from White Labs and Wyeast are Frohburg strains. Genetic testing has revealed that WLP-800 is actually an ale yeast.  Definitely not Frohburg. ---
**Author:** ![hopfenundmalz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hopfenundmalz/32/11193_2.png) [@hopfenundmalz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hopfenundmalz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/51 "2020-05-08T14:12:51Z")
> [@Silver\_Is\_Money](#): > > > [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > > > There was a recent podcast by Escarpment Labs featuring Kristoffer Krogerus talking about lager yeast genetics. One take away was that all of the commercial lager strains from White Labs and Wyeast are Frohburg strains. > > Genetic testing has revealed that WLP-800 is actually an ale yeast.  Definitely not Frohburg. That is true. This guy is Suregork. His blog is where we learned that 800 and 838 are ale yeasts, and some “ale” strains are lagers genetically. I think he knows. [http://beer.suregork.com/](http://beer.suregork.com/) ---
**Author:** ![hopfenundmalz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hopfenundmalz/32/11193_2.png) [@hopfenundmalz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hopfenundmalz)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2020, 2:20pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/52 "2020-05-08T14:20:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Brewer](#): > > > [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > > > all of the commercial lager strains from White Labs and Wyeast are Frohburg strains. No Saaz strains are available. The Czech Brewers use Frohburg strains. > > No Saaz strains are available from certain US homebrew yeast labs. That doesn’t mean they’re not used commercially, it just reflects decisions made by CUHYL when choosing strains, in the same way as their selections of British yeast do not reflect the fact that around half of British commercial brewing yeast strains are phenolic to some degree. > > > [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > > > Years back I had read that Frohburg were used by German brewers, Saaz by Czech Brewers, but that was wrong. > > > > Thought I would put this here. There genetic differences in lager yeast are small compared to ale yeasts. > > True within the families, but I’d suggest the fact that Saaz have three sets of chromosomes and Frohberg have four sets is a pretty major genetic difference! > > It seems that Saaz originated in samples sent out by Carlsberg and Frohberg originated at Heineken (as far as we can tell), presumably reflecting random selections made of ??Czech?? original multistrains. Evidence today says that there was one hybridization event. The Saaz strains lost a Sac. C. Chromosome. It is more cold tolerant, but not as stable  (I think I got that right). I was lazy before, and didn’t post the link. I think you will enjoy this talk. [![](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/3X/e/1/e1376329970922869cb4836d45d9bcc8975c472a.jpeg "History and Future of Lager Yeasts with Kristoffer Krogerus") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vOLRv-sKvk) ---
**Author:** ![erockrph](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/erockrph/32/13330_2.png) [@erockrph](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/erockrph)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2020, 10:08am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/53 "2020-05-12T10:08:36Z")
Apologies for being a little late to the conversation on this. I used 34/70 for years for all my lagers. It is incredibly forgiving of fermentation temperature, and it is squeaky clean. So clean that I always felt that it was missing something - that faint sulfur note that I pick up in most European lagers. I also feel that it tends to mute hop expression a bit. I tried S-189 and once I got it dialed in, I switched to using it for the majority of my lagers. It gives that hint of sulfur that I like, and I think it does a better job at accentuating hop character - spicy noble hops like Saaz in particular. One thing I’ve found is that it is not as forgiving as 34/70 with temperature. I pitch it at 40F, then set my chamber to 45F for the first 4-5 days before slowly ramping temps up. ---
**Author:** ![beersk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/beersk/32/13414_2.png) [@beersk](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/beersk)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2020, 10:16pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/54 "2020-05-13T22:16:42Z")
> [@erockrph](#): > > Apologies for being a little late to the conversation on this. I used 34/70 for years for all my lagers. It is incredibly forgiving of fermentation temperature, and it is squeaky clean. So clean that I always felt that it was missing something - that faint sulfur note that I pick up in most European lagers. I also feel that it tends to mute hop expression a bit. > > I tried S-189 and once I got it dialed in, I switched to using it for the majority of my lagers. It gives that hint of sulfur that I like, and I think it does a better job at accentuating hop character - spicy noble hops like Saaz in particular. One thing I’ve found is that it is not as forgiving as 34/70 with temperature. I pitch it at 40F, then set my chamber to 45F for the first 4-5 days before slowly ramping temps up. What’s the max temp you would recommend for it? I used to brew with 34/70 a lot, then I switched to liquid strains for basically the same reason as Ken. But I’m looking to go back to using a lot more dry strains. 34/70 was always very temp forgiving. I would often ferment it in the mid 60’s; or at the very least, start it at 60F then let it free rise to 66F. Any reason S-189 couldn’t be treated the same way? ---
**Author:** ![erockrph](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/erockrph/32/13330_2.png) [@erockrph](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/erockrph)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 3:40am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/55 "2020-05-14T03:40:29Z")
> [@beersk](#): > > > [@erockrph](#): > > > > Apologies for being a little late to the conversation on this. I used 34/70 for years for all my lagers. It is incredibly forgiving of fermentation temperature, and it is squeaky clean. So clean that I always felt that it was missing something - that faint sulfur note that I pick up in most European lagers. I also feel that it tends to mute hop expression a bit. > > > > I tried S-189 and once I got it dialed in, I switched to using it for the majority of my lagers. It gives that hint of sulfur that I like, and I think it does a better job at accentuating hop character - spicy noble hops like Saaz in particular. One thing I’ve found is that it is not as forgiving as 34/70 with temperature. I pitch it at 40F, then set my chamber to 45F for the first 4-5 days before slowly ramping temps up. > > What’s the max temp you would recommend for it? I used to brew with 34/70 a lot, then I switched to liquid strains for basically the same reason as Ken. But I’m looking to go back to using a lot more dry strains. 34/70 was always very temp forgiving. I would often ferment it in the mid 60’s; or at the very least, start it at 60F then let it free rise to 66F. Any reason S-189 couldn’t be treated the same way? The one time I tried pitching S-189 at 55 then let it rise to 62, it was probably the worst lager I ever brewed. Fruity with solvent notes. I’m not sure how high you can push it, and I’m not really looking to experiment since I know low and slow works well. ---
**Author:** ![goschman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@goschman](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/goschman)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 4:46am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/56 "2020-05-14T04:46:18Z")
> [@erockrph](#): > > Apologies for being a little late to the conversation on this. I used 34/70 for years for all my lagers. It is incredibly forgiving of fermentation temperature, and it is squeaky clean. So clean that I always felt that it was missing something - that faint sulfur note that I pick up in most European lagers. I also feel that it tends to mute hop expression a bit. > > I tried S-189 and once I got it dialed in, I switched to using it for the majority of my lagers. It gives that hint of sulfur that I like, and I think it does a better job at accentuating hop character - spicy noble hops like Saaz in particular. One thing I’ve found is that it is not as forgiving as 34/70 with temperature. I pitch it at 40F, then set my chamber to 45F for the first 4-5 days before slowly ramping temps up. Big fan of 189 myself. It’s my go to lager strain. I have never run it above the low 50s. ---
**Author:** ![BrewBama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewbama/32/21184_2.png) [@BrewBama](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/BrewBama)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 12:21pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/57 "2020-05-14T12:21:19Z")
I have used S-189 in the low 60(s) with great results. ---
**Author:** ![beersk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/beersk/32/13414_2.png) [@beersk](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/beersk)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2020, 1:22pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692/58 "2020-05-14T13:22:15Z")
> [@erockrph](#): > > > [@beersk](#): > > > > > [@erockrph](#): > > > > > > Apologies for being a little late to the conversation on this. I used 34/70 for years for all my lagers. It is incredibly forgiving of fermentation temperature, and it is squeaky clean. So clean that I always felt that it was missing something - that faint sulfur note that I pick up in most European lagers. I also feel that it tends to mute hop expression a bit. > > > > > > I tried S-189 and once I got it dialed in, I switched to using it for the majority of my lagers. It gives that hint of sulfur that I like, and I think it does a better job at accentuating hop character - spicy noble hops like Saaz in particular. One thing I’ve found is that it is not as forgiving as 34/70 with temperature. I pitch it at 40F, then set my chamber to 45F for the first 4-5 days before slowly ramping temps up. > > > > What’s the max temp you would recommend for it? I used to brew with 34/70 a lot, then I switched to liquid strains for basically the same reason as Ken. But I’m looking to go back to using a lot more dry strains. 34/70 was always very temp forgiving. I would often ferment it in the mid 60’s; or at the very least, start it at 60F then let it free rise to 66F. Any reason S-189 couldn’t be treated the same way? > > The one time I tried pitching S-189 at 55 then let it rise to 62, it was probably the worst lager I ever brewed. Fruity with solvent notes. I’m not sure how high you can push it, and I’m not really looking to experiment since I know low and slow works well. > > Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk Good to know…not sure I’m wanting to run that risk myself. [Previous page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/best-dry-yeast-for-the-bohemian-or-czech-pilsner-style/29692.md?page=2)