Chilling The Wort: No Chill vs. Quick Chill | xBmt Results!

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

Hell hath no fury like German beer zealots scorned…

• 1

And how dare you force carbonate Marshall. Jeez [emoji6]

+2.  Appellations and styles aside, this WAS a chill/no chill xBmt , not a yeast xBmt.

[bgreimann_gmail.com (germanbrew)]

@dmtaylor

Real Kolsch is only made in Koln.  It is an appellation.

If your palate can’t tell the difference, a helles is a helles.

I agree what that statement. :)  And if our homebrews stand up in a blind tasting against the likes of Weihenstephan or other German originals, we can brew it however we like and call it that style. 

[hopfenundmalz]

Kölsch is an Obergäriges Lagerbier in Germany. Lager means to store, Alt and Kölsch are cold conditioned, so they are lagers to the Germans.

As Dave points out Kölsch is only made in the area of Köln (Cologne).

[bgreimann_gmail.com (germanbrew)]

@brulosopher

@rabeb25

Its not about a palate, Let me put it this way… you do an exbeeriment where you blind triangle your “helles” with good fresh examples of the style from Germany. When people can’t tell a difference there, I will then be “sold”. Still won’t call it a lager or a helles though.

Also use a real yeast with character, 833/838/2206/etc. You are comparing the “US05” of lager yeasts.

I mean… compare your homemade Helles with a traditional example sent over from Germany, I bet people could tell them apart. Now, compare your homemade example using traditional lager yeast with my homemade example using WLP029 and there’s a good chance, assuming our recipe and process were the same otherwise, people would have a much more difficult time distinguishing them.

Isn’t the goal (when trying to brew a specific style) to match the actual beers from that region or of that style?  I’m not convinced that comparing homebrew to homebrew is an effective comparison.  More useful, as Bryan is saying, to compare homebrew example to an original.

[wort-h.o.g]

Good job Marshall.

I collect all of my chill water and reuse it in the washing machine. This obviously only works for top load machines, but at least feel like I’m not wasting. I do end up dumping my oxiclean solution and of course I go through 5-10 gallons cleaning up and rinsing my kettle and tun.

I’ve been meaning to try chilling 100% with a sump pump. Sure it won’t be as fast as ground water, but with recirculation in the kettle and recirculation of the chill water, I think I can do it with 12 gallons of water plus some ice water.

when i need to chill into the 40’s range, I use my hydra chiller on tap water for first 3-4minutes to drop temp into 80’s, then hook to my pump recirculating in ice cooler. minimizes water consumption and total chill time to get 45-48F is about 8-9 minutes.

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

Why is it important to squeeze the air out of the cube with no chill? Is that for sanitation? Just curious.

Interesting exbeeriment.

[brulosopher]

@beersk

@rabeb25

How is it a helles when its brewed with a kolsch yeast?

Oh, Bryan, just let it be.

I always thought that maybe the Aussies just had terrible palates… I guess this sort of confirms that, while this method doesn’t produce bad beer, it doesn’t produce the best possible beer.

It’s hard to let it be, when he’s now partnered with a homebrew supply company & will be pawning his nonsense off as beer kits that are sold as ‘Munich Helles’.
That, to me, is bothersome.
It’s not a Munich Helles…
It’s a light ale.

What’s nonsense to me is thinking a style is defined by the type of yeast used and not the ultimate character of the beer.

One of my favorite American IPAs is fermented with the Fullers strain.

[brulosopher]

@dmtaylor

Real Kolsch is only made in Koln.  It is an appellation.

If your palate can’t tell the difference, a helles is a helles.

But…Not a ‘Munich Helles’.

Oh god…

[brulosopher]

@brulosopher

@rabeb25

Its not about a palate, Let me put it this way… you do an exbeeriment where you blind triangle your “helles” with good fresh examples of the style from Germany. When people can’t tell a difference there, I will then be “sold”. Still won’t call it a lager or a helles though.

Also use a real yeast with character, 833/838/2206/etc. You are comparing the “US05” of lager yeasts.

I mean… compare your homemade Helles with a traditional example sent over from Germany, I bet people could tell them apart. Now, compare your homemade example using traditional lager yeast with my homemade example using WLP029 and there’s a good chance, assuming our recipe and process were the same otherwise, people would have a much more difficult time distinguishing them.

Isn’t the goal (when trying to brew a specific style) to match the actual beers from that region or of that style?  I’m not convinced that comparing homebrew to homebrew is an effective comparison.  More useful, as Bryan is saying, to compare homebrew example to an original.

I’ve done that plenty of times, my Helles with 029 comes closer than anything I’ve made using traditional yeast.

I get that people are married to their perspectives, that’s exactly why I started Brülosophy in the first place… and chose this as the first kit release

[AmandaK]

@brulosopher

What’s nonsense to me is thinking a style is defined by the type of yeast used and not the ultimate character of the beer.

Amen, brother.

Can we all get back to the original topic?

[system]

@beersk

@rabeb25

How is it a helles when its brewed with a kolsch yeast?

Oh, Bryan, just let it be.

I always thought that maybe the Aussies just had terrible palates… I guess this sort of confirms that, while this method doesn’t produce bad beer, it doesn’t produce the best possible beer.

I’m sorry…I have trigger words, the American bastardization of traditional German Styles happen to be some of them. It’s hard to let that go un-noticed. So its a light ale.

Sure back at hand…No chill sucks, when brewing a traditional beer. You have to account for the extra bitterness and what not extracted from the longer contact. Couple BIAB and some good squeezing with some no-chill and you have a something… :

[homoeccentricus]

@alestateyall

Why is it important to squeeze the air out of the cube with no chill? Is that for sanitation? Just curious.

Creates a partial vacuum so the buggers cannot enter the cube.

[rjharper]

So getting back to the OP topic of chill versus no chill, I’m focused on chill haze and cold break. The old adage was that without rapid chilling there was a poorer cold break and so probably some chill haze. Do you think the gelatin fining mitigated some of this?

I (like a lot of homebrewers probably) don’t fine, I let time and temperature drop my kegs perfectly bright as is. Do you think there would have been a more noticeable difference between the batches without fining?

[bgreimann_gmail.com (germanbrew)]

@brulosopher

@brulosopher

@rabeb25

Its not about a palate, Let me put it this way… you do an exbeeriment where you blind triangle your “helles” with good fresh examples of the style from Germany. When people can’t tell a difference there, I will then be “sold”. Still won’t call it a lager or a helles though.

Also use a real yeast with character, 833/838/2206/etc. You are comparing the “US05” of lager yeasts.

I mean… compare your homemade Helles with a traditional example sent over from Germany, I bet people could tell them apart. Now, compare your homemade example using traditional lager yeast with my homemade example using WLP029 and there’s a good chance, assuming our recipe and process were the same otherwise, people would have a much more difficult time distinguishing them.

Isn’t the goal (when trying to brew a specific style) to match the actual beers from that region or of that style?  I’m not convinced that comparing homebrew to homebrew is an effective comparison.  More useful, as Bryan is saying, to compare homebrew example to an original.

I’ve done that plenty of times, my Helles with 029 comes closer than anything I’ve made using traditional yeast.

I get that people are married to their perspectives, that’s exactly why I started Brülosophy in the first place… and chose this as the first kit release

Cool…which example is that recipe closest to? (sorry if this is peripherally hijacking the thread - please let me know if there’s a specific discussion about it somewhere else).  I like the use of Belgian Pils malt, I’ve heard great things about it having a nice soft breadiness.

[brulosopher]

@brulosopher

@brulosopher

@rabeb25

Its not about a palate, Let me put it this way… you do an exbeeriment where you blind triangle your “helles” with good fresh examples of the style from Germany. When people can’t tell a difference there, I will then be “sold”. Still won’t call it a lager or a helles though.

Also use a real yeast with character, 833/838/2206/etc. You are comparing the “US05” of lager yeasts.

I mean… compare your homemade Helles with a traditional example sent over from Germany, I bet people could tell them apart. Now, compare your homemade example using traditional lager yeast with my homemade example using WLP029 and there’s a good chance, assuming our recipe and process were the same otherwise, people would have a much more difficult time distinguishing them.

Isn’t the goal (when trying to brew a specific style) to match the actual beers from that region or of that style?  I’m not convinced that comparing homebrew to homebrew is an effective comparison.  More useful, as Bryan is saying, to compare homebrew example to an original.

I’ve done that plenty of times, my Helles with 029 comes closer than anything I’ve made using traditional yeast.

I get that people are married to their perspectives, that’s exactly why I started Brülosophy in the first place… and chose this as the first kit release

Cool…which example is that recipe closest to? (sorry if this is peripherally hijacking the thread - please let me know if there’s a specific discussion about it somewhere else).  I like the use of Belgian Pils malt, I’ve heard great things about it having a nice soft breadiness.

In my opinion, it’s probably closest to a fresher version of Hofbräu Original, but I’m not really good at comparisons like this.

[brulosopher]

@rabeb25

@beersk

@rabeb25

How is it a helles when its brewed with a kolsch yeast?

Oh, Bryan, just let it be.

I always thought that maybe the Aussies just had terrible palates… I guess this sort of confirms that, while this method doesn’t produce bad beer, it doesn’t produce the best possible beer.

I’m sorry…I have trigger words, the American bastardization of traditional German Styles happen to be some of them. It’s hard to let that go un-noticed. So its a light ale.

Sounds like more a dogmatic philosophy than anything else, I’m cool with that- call it what you want, it tastes like a Helles

@rjharper

So getting back to the OP topic of chill versus no chill, I’m focused on chill haze and cold break. The old adage was that without rapid chilling there was a poorer cold break and so probably some chill haze. Do you think the gelatin fining mitigated some of this?

I (like a lot of homebrewers probably) don’t fine, I let time and temperature drop my kegs perfectly bright as is. Do you think there would have been a more noticeable difference between the batches without fining?

I absolutely believe the gelatin helped with clarity, but I’ve yet to do a no chill + gelatin side by side, so I’m not certain.

[brothermalcolm]

Positive pressure may help that but not a vacuum.

@alestateyall

Why is it important to squeeze the air out of the cube with no chill? Is that for sanitation? Just curious.

Creates a partial vacuum so the buggers cannot enter the cube.

[skatz (Stevie)]

I think squeezing is to ensure a long contact time across all surfaces to ensure sanitization.

[brothermalcolm]

It’s Helles-like really. Sure, not a lager. But the beer is what is presents itself to be. If it’s tastes clean and lager like who cares. And it’s not the issue at hand either. The beer is a platform for the experiment.

@beersk

@rabeb25

How is it a helles when its brewed with a kolsch yeast?

Oh, Bryan, just let it be.

I always thought that maybe the Aussies just had terrible palates… I guess this sort of confirms that, while this method doesn’t produce bad beer, it doesn’t produce the best possible beer.

It’s hard to let it be, when he’s now partnered with a homebrew supply company & will be pawning his nonsense off as beer kits that are sold as ‘Munich Helles’.
That, to me, is bothersome.
It’s not a Munich Helles…
It’s a light ale.

[kit_b]

@brulosopher

Sounds like more a dogmatic philosophy than anything else, I’m cool with that- call it what you want, it tastes like a Helles

Out of curiosity, what would you say are the factors that set it apart from other light lagers/ales & makes it resemble a Munich helles, specifically?