I’ve used T-58 for my last two Weizens and have been very pleased with the results. The only thing I’d like to improve on is the attenuation. The last batch finished at 69%/1.016, and I’d like to get it down to 1.010-1.012.
For my next batch, I’m going to either use a lot more dextrose (last batch had 2.2%) or try co-pitching. I’m thinking of trying BRY-97 because of its neutrality and attenuation, but also its lag time. T-58 is a quick worker, and I’m hoping that I’ll get enough esters out of the T-58 within the first 48 hours or so before the BRY-97 kicks in. US-05 would also be an option.
If I do this, should I use the standard pitch rate for both yeasts (not combined) - .5g/L? That would amount to 1 sachet per 19L or so. I’d end up using twice the amount, but both yeasts are pretty inexpensive, so I don’t mind.
Or should I try increasing the dextrose to 7-8% on my next batch and stick with the T-58 only?
Attenuation is mash-related.
Yeast may help depending on maltotriose fermentation ability.
Learn to mash for attenuation.
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)
I mashed the last batch at 45C for 20 minutes, then 63C (145F) for 70 minutes. I don’t really want to mash any lower than 63C. What else can I do in the mash to improve attenuation?
T-58 doesn’t ferment maltotriose, so it is a good candidate for a co-pitch. BRY-97 would be a good choice for all the reasons you mention.
From the mash side, you could hold the mash longer at 145 if you wanted to try to increase attentuation. You could also go a couple of degrees lower in hopes of some increased limit dextrinase activity. But my money is on the co-pitch being the best bang for your buck on this one.
You might have to dial it in, but when I copitch it with Windsor, I just split it 50-50. I’d start there or maybe 2/3 T-58 and 1/3 BRY-97. From there, adjust based on attentuation and/or flavor as needed.
My only concern about dextrose is ester overload. T-58 already delivers a lot of isoamyl acetate, and I worry that too much dextrose might take it into medicinal territory.
I went with a T-58/BRY-97 co-pitch on my current batch, and we’ll see how that turns out. Unfortunately, I came down with covid and have no sense of smell at the moment, so I’m going to leave it in the fermenter for the time being. I’ll update when I have some results to report.
this is a really interesting thing, since ive seen that too that glucose (dextrose) increases isoamyl acetate, and was thinking that - despite it going against the mindless reinheitsgebot concept (homebrewers who care about this in 2023 - lollll) - it could be a great way to increase banana in weisse beers.
and lol no more importantly “too much dextrose” into medicinal - absolutely not in any reasonable quantity. i know people here and major brewers use up to 20% dextrose/sucrose/etc simple sugars confirmed, likely higher numbers i cant say ive heard. i regularly use 10%, i think highest probably between 12 to 15% and there is zero medicinal/bandaid phenols. creating this high alcohol beer can result in ethanol/“hot” tastes in some cases for periods of time after production, but these are in 10% ABV plus beers.
adding a small amount of dextrose in what sounds like a 5-6% ABV beer will not even be noticeable
All yeasts produce esters.
All beer have esters.
Dextrose produces more esters, and having more glucose in the wort is a well-known process to increase weissbier esters; the mechanism is known.
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.” - Sherlock Holmes (A. Conan Doyle)
I kegged the T-58/BRY-97 Weizen after 14 days in the fermenter. I had a little leftover, so I filled three 500ml PET bottles and force-carbed them.
The final gravity was 1.008, a bit lower than the 1.011 I was shooting for. I targeted a mash temp of 67C/153F, but my calculations were a bit off, and it started at 70C/158F. I stirred often in hopes of lowering the temp. It finally got down to 67 after about 45 minutes.
The grain bill was 52% wheat, 40% pilsner, 6.5% carahell and 1.5% Ireks aroma. 13 IBUs of nugget at the start of the boil. I fermented at 21C/70F.
I came down with COVID two weeks ago, and my sense of smell has not returned yet. My wife, who has been an honest critic throughout my Weizen efforts, volunteered to try one of the 500ml force-carbed bottles. She said it had a strong fruity aroma and a fruity finish as well. She gave me a smile and a thumbs up, and said it’s the best so far. I’m looking forward to trying it myself.
As a side note, I’ve got a Bohemian pilsner (Saaz Amore!, naturally), an APA, and a Black Butte-inspired porter on tap, and it’s been really frustrating that I haven’t been able to enjoy them. I also have a Kirkland/S-04 cider on tap, which usually takes a long time to get through, but without my sense of smell, it turned out the cider is much more enjoyable than any of the beers.
sounds good, just wondering what country/location you are in?
i used to have a limited choice of only a few dry yeasts and used t-58 for a lot of “belgian” and wheat beers. honestly, it is not a bad yeast, but i definitely enjoy having a wider variety to choose from. just wondering, in case anyone can give pointers for choosing a wide variety of yeasts. fyi i order from a store about 2 hours highway drive from me, get it via fedex in about 2 days, they pack the liquid yeast with an icepack and ive never had any issue at all.
Gave it another go, this time with dextrose and all T-58.
I tried 11% dextrose. It seemed a bit high, but the numbers looked good on Brewfather, so I gave it a try. Mashed at 68C/154F. I ended up overshooting my predicted FG (1.008 vs. 1.010), but everything else seems OK.
I still haven’t gotten my sense of smell back (been over two months now), but I poured one for my wife, and she asked if it was Paulaner. I’ll take that as a good sign.
For the next batch, I’ll try maybe 7% dextrose and all T-58.