Hey all, this is more of a general process\flaw detection question, but it’s technically an all-grain batch so:
Made what turned out to be a killer beer for my birthday over the summer - just re-brewed a few weeks ago.
It’s a bruiser of a IIPA, coming in at 11.5 %ABV (all 2-row except 3.5% rye, 3.5% cara-vienna and 6% cane sugar). Has nearly a pound of high-alpha hops. Largest additions are at flameout and gets double dry-hopped (5-days each). Second dry-hop addition was in the O2-purged keg when I pulled them, cold-crashed it, hit it will gelatin and it was diamond-bright (except for minor residual hop matter) in 48 hrs.
As I was tasting it 24hrs after adding gelatin, life was wonderful: it was full of massive citrus, floral, blackberry, and green tea aromas with a touch of dankness in the bank. Spicy, warming alcohol and just enough malt sweetness to give some semblance of balance. If anything it was better than the first iteration.
Literally on day 3 after fining, the beer now pops with a big, cloying caramel note in the aroma and flavor. Totally different beer.
So, does anything jump out as a culprit? My only guess is oxidation at this point - but this is such a dramatic shift, I really don’t know. My original birthday beer was only dry hopped-once due to time constraints and consumed the night of the party so I wasn’t able to fine that one or even age it so don’t know if the same issue would have arisen.
Any insights as to the cause of this unfortunate turn of events is welcome!
Hrm, well I assumed low 40’s, but my thermometer in a freshly poured sample says 56F which I’m not sure I trust atm. It’s at the spot at the temp control dial where I’ve served all my beers for awhile now.
mouthfeel is fuller than you’d expect for finishing at 1.011 and I had thought buttery ‘could’ be a component but I’m not terribly sensitive to diacetyl. Assumed fuller mouthfeel was from alcohol and hop oils.
Fermentation was in stainless (10-gallon corny) at 66F for 14 days, then 5 days on first dry hop @ ~68F, which seems to also reduce likelyhood of diacetyl?
I don’t know much about Pedio behavior - can it turn a beer so quickly?
You said you didn’t use gelatin on the first batch, but that you did on this one. I feel that gelatin drops hop character a bit and with a huge 11.5% beer, if the balance of the hop character dropped off some, the beer could seem suddenly a little sweeter/more caramelly. Some oxidation of hop compounds may well have happened here too. I’d bet on these issues given the time frame.
That seems like enough time for the yeast to clean up diacetyl. Diacetyl has a precursor that is untastable. That precursor can change to diacetyl when the beer cools off. It is possible that the precursor was still in the beer at kegging and converted to diacetyl in the keg.
It’s easy to under pitch such a big beer. That can lead to excessive diacetyl.
You can fix it if it is diacetyl. Warm it up and for a 5G batch pitch a 2L starter into it when the starter is at high krausen. Let that ferment out and rekeg as you normally would. I have done this twice over the years with great success.
For what it’s worth, I had something similar happen on a recent 8% ABV IIPA that had just a shade over a pound of hops between whirlpool and dry hopping. I tried to contain the hop matter using nylon bags during the boil, whirlpool and double dry hop. it seemed to work well compared to prior attempts.
After a few days of conditioning and the same type of gelatin fining process you mention it tasted pretty good, had awesome aroma and was very clear. I hit it with C02 for a week and something odd happened. I got a bunch of yeasty and perhaps oxidized flavors (and even better clarity). I happened to shake the keg to get a little more gas into solution and the beer turned slightly hazy again…and…tasted better. I don’t understand where the haze came from unless the the gelatin got the yeast, but some of the residual hop matter floated on top.
I’ve had this on tap for a month and I will say that if I let it sit for 3-4 days, the first 4 oz that come out of the initial pour are slightly murky, then it looks right with a touch of haze and tastes great. I need a transparent keg to figure this out.
Maybe if you shake your keg you could help me figure out my problem
Possibly. But I would find it odd especially in an 11.5% ABV beer with a ton of IBU’s. Pediococcus is still a bacteria that does not enjoy IBU’s and alcohol but it could happen.
I have very soft, clean water (Seattle area) treated both mash and sparge with 1.5 tsp CaCl2 and Gypsum to harden it a bit. Water is filtered through charcoal to remove chlorine.
And TeeDubb, I did actually shake the keg a bit when changing the serving line to a picnic tap to remove the kegerator line\faucet as a culprit for infection. I noticed the same thing - some re-suspension of cloudiness and somewhat renewed hop flavor, but today it’s back to a crystal clear overly sweet, caramel bomb…so sad.
I’ve used gelatin on many beers in the past with great results, but admittedly not on such a strong, hoppy beer. Perhaps next control will be to eliminate that step and see what happens.
Hey man! My suggestion is to hop on craigs list and find a fridge. I got mine for about 50 bucks and it works great! Then get your self a good temp controller my suggestion is theInkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1000w, w/ Sensor off amazon hard to beat the price! Compared to an stc 1000. Once you got fermentation control you could work on a system to control your mash temp! Hope this helps!
Yep, Great advice from Carlson. I live in Auburn with close to the same water in Seattle. I usually add 3g each of gypsum, CaCl, MgCl (Epsom salts) & 3ml of lactic acid. About 2g added to my Sparge water minus the lactic. I recently bought a used fridge for $80 for a ferm chamber. Since doing that my beer has improved dramatically. I also suggest sending a water sample from your tap to Ward labs to get a full water profile (city reports don’t give you all the info needed) then use brunwater to get an idea of what additions to make.
