English yeast...Fruitiness wanted

I would like to brew a bitter with a bit of fruitiness.

  1. Does SO-4 provide any fruitiness?

  2. What strain would be my best choice here?

  3. Is there any part of the brewing/fermentation process which can be manipulated to produce more or less fruitiness?

A few years ago, I used WY1275(Thames Valley), which produced some nice fruitiness.  But, I was not able to repeat it.

I like Windsor dry yeast.

Windsor is a good choice. As far as brewing techniques, fruitiness is a result of esters thrown by the yeast. Some strains produce more (or less) than others, but whichever yeast you go with you want to ferment at a little bit higher temperature to encourage the fruitiness. Not too high, or you’re likely to get fusels & nasty higher alcohols. Check the yeast vendors website to get their recommend temp range. Stay within the higher middle of that range.

I like to use White Labs WLP002 yeast for my English Ales.  Produces a fair amount of fruitiness and flocculates well.  Pitch at 64F and slowly raise to 68F to get a relatively higher level of fruitiness.

Yes . . it does. But, don’t know how much you are shooting for. It’s not the fruitiest English strain, but definitely some.

+1 I really like the fruitiness 002 gives off when you raise the temp like that.

In your understanding, do esters refer to flavor, or aroma?  Both?

Esters can be detected in flavor and aroma.  Almost always fruity in nature.

Jim asked me this question offline and I said that usually I was talking about flavor, but that it might also be appropriate to refer to esters in aroma.  We’ve heard from Ron now…what about some more opinions?

Okay…

I’m looking over this BJCP scoresheet of mine for an APA.  The judge (Grand Master III level) uses the term “ester” to refer to aspects of both the aroma, and flavor.  Aroma-low peach ester.  Flavor- light white grape ester in finish.

no question - esters can be detected by both the nose & the tastebuds. look at the BJCP style guidelines and you’ll see many of the stle descriptions refer to esters in both aroma & flavor

The production of esters can be affected by both the fermentation temperature and by the yeast pitching rate.  Pitching too little yeast encourages more yeast growth and ester production.  This is very desirable in Hefeweizens.  Overpitching reduces the yeast growth and ester production.

I’m with Ron on this one.  Both aroma and taste can pick up esters in beer.  Esters are used in the manufacture of artificial flavorings as well.  FWIW.  I like WLP-002 for English beers.  Although S-04 is OK in a pinch.

Here is an interesting link about the subject. (for beer nerds) :wink:

http://getcheminfo.wikispaces.com/abilinski

Nice find Jim!  I like it.  :slight_smile:

Martin, I’ve also read things that indicate the opposite, i.e. yeast growth leads to decreased ester production. If you have time, I’d appreciate your take on this…

http://www.danstaryeast.com/library/yeast-growth

I guess I don’t get the point of trying to describe esters as an aroma or a flavor. An ester is a chemical compound, which has an aroma and a flavor. Some chemical compounds have one or the other, some also have a mouthfeel component.  One of the better references that I’ve seen that takes Meilgaard’s flavor wheel and decomposes it into table form is this: http://hbd.org/brewery/library/FlavW.html

Look at the chart and see if something is described as an odor (aroma), taste, and/or mouthfeel.

Also, we all know from high school biology and Japanese cooking that we can probably only taste 5 basic flavors: sweet, salty, sour, bitter and umami.  Most if not all other “flavors” are actually aromas that our brain mis-interprets as flavor.  Esters are most probably aromas, but we may perceive them as flavors because our brains lie to us a lot.

I think you answered your own question.

I wanted to know whether esters referred to perceived aroma, or flavor.  It appears both.  Now I know.

As far as aroma, I find that S-04 produces the aroma of apricots.

Try this… Rehydrate a sachet of S-04 in a zip-top bag, evacuating all of the air. After the appropriate time, open the top and give a good whiff. Fresh apricots.

Denny/Martin, This is a question/topic that I’ve been fascinated with as well.  BrewChem 101 states, high yeast pitching rates will lead to increased ester production.  But my favorite quote on the subject is in Principles of Brewing Science; “Brewing procedures are quite important to ester production. These are HIGHLY VARIED and sometimes SEEMINGLY CONTRADICTORY.”  A little later on, he states that under pitching [thus high rates of growth] encourages ester formation.  I have found in discussions with Brewing Science Institute that the brewing procedures necessary (under or over pitch) for ester production will change depending on which variety of yeast is being used; we also discussed fermentation temperature and aeration. Anyway, nice topic and I will enjoy reading everyone’s comments.  Cheers, j