Getting Back at it. Any tips appreciated.

It has been over 20 years since I last made beer at home.  Those days it was all extract, 5 gallon batches.  I have fond memories of the experience. Some were good, like an unforgettable Cherry Wheat where I somehow guessed the perfect hop additions.  And some…well not so much, like quickly realizing that sanitizing isn’t just a suggestion.  First rule of brewing I suppose.

Anyway, I have been recently searching and reading many of the threads here trying to figure out what is my best way back into homebrewing. I have to say that this community is quite impressive, not just for the information available but also for the civilized tone to the discussions. Much appreciated.

I have decided that I’m going to give small batch (2.5 gal) BIAB a go. Mash, boil, ferment, bottle, lose my mind waiting, drink. Reasons are the usual: I like to tinker with recipes, I’m the primary beer drinker, 5 gallons of one style is too repetitive, keep it simple for now, brew in the kitchen on the stove etc. etc.

Before I brew my first one though, I was hoping to get some opinions first.

1.  For the first beer, I was hoping to keep it simple.  I was leaning towards an English Pale Ale (Marris Otter based, fuggles and goldings, some English ale yeast) but started worrying that this seemingly straight-forward beer might expose my rusty abilities.  Maybe I should try something a little more bold, like a stout or porter, to mask any off flavors?

2.  In scaling down 5 gallon recipes, is it as simple as dividing by 2 across the board?  10lbs of grain becomes 5…2oz hops becomes 1.  Or is there more nuance to it?  What to do about the yeast?  Is this why I need Brewers Friend or Beer Smith?  :smiley:

3.  I am petrified of contamination.  My cleaning thought process is to wash all equipment with dishwashing liquid, rinse thoroughly and then Star San for sanitizing.  I saw a video where the brewer used a bucket to keep the StarSan solution, then rinsed his spoon in the solution and went right to the brew pot to stir without rinsing the spoon under water first.  Is that legal?  That feels so wrong to me. 
Does anyone use a dishwasher for cleaning and/or sanitizing bottles?  I’m assuming no, but was looking for a shortcut.

4.  I bought some new equipment from a local beer distributor that doubles as a mini homebrew supply.  I found him on the AHA website, he pays his dues.  I want to give the local guy as much business as I can, but equipment is one thing, ingredients are another.  I’m not sure how much beer making stuff he moves (he seemed to have a fair selection of grains but a small selection of hops and yeast) and I’m concerned about quality.  Has anyone had a problem buying ingredients local, and if you don’t buy local, what on-line sites are your favorites.

  1. One beer-making book that I NEED to have handy.  I lost most of my old books in a move and was hoping to have something equivalent to a Homebrewers Bible by my side.

Thanks in advance to all.  Any answer to any question is greatly, greatly appreciated!

Cheers!

First - welcome back to brewing. Things have changed a lot on 20 years. We also brew 2.5 gallon BIAB. See the link for a neat (free) BIAB calculator. https://www.biabrewer.info/. Our kettle is stainless with a triclad bottom from Costco. My wife made the bag from voile from the fabric shop. Dividing a 5 gallon recipe by 2 is a place to start and then tweak. As you have noted, people go from the star san bucket to the wort/beer. It has no ill effects. Your are right to start simple. We still brew simple. There is no need to have a grain bill or hop schedule that looks like a Tolstoy novel. As for books, I like Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher and How to Brew by John Palmer. There are a lot of other good books. Most people really like these 2 for starters. In addition, hang around the AHA forum and think about joining a club - lots of good info to be had.

Happy Brewing

Welcome back to brewing, and to the forum!  A few ideas…

1.  Brew something you like, that’s why we brew.  If it happens to reveal faults in your process, well, better sooner than later to address the problem, right?

2.  There probably are nuances, but simply scaling up or down should do just fine.

3.  Dishwashing liquid is a good, cheap cleaner for many applications.  (Some people say use unscented, but I figure when you can’t smell it, you know it’s properly rinsed.)  Alkaline cleaners like PBW, Craftmeister Alkaline Wash, or even plain Oxiclean are good for soaking fermenters and bottles with gunk on them.

Star San is considered a no rinse sanitizer.  A caveat is that it kills most bacteria, but not yeast (including wild yeast,) fungi, or any spores.  Back in the day you likely used bleach, which kills everything stone dead, but the residue causes horrible flavors in beer.  Iodophor is as lethal as bleach, but also a no rinse brewing sanitizer.  Try to make it your primary sanitizer.

Dishwashers probably won’t get into the insides of the bottles adequately.  Better to soak the bottles in one of the aforementioned alkaline cleaners, rinse, and sanitize.  Rinsing a bottle immediately after pouring a beer makes everything easier.

4.  There are lots of good online retailers.  Shop around.  Better to go directly through one of the homebrew retailers’ websites than Amazon in my experience.

5.  Probably the go-to first book nowadays is the latest (4th?) edition of John Palmer’s How to Brew.

And remember the old mantra, RDWHAHB (relax, don’t worry, have a homebrew.)

I recommend brewing something lighter this time of year. A stout is a bit much on a hot day after gardening, mowing the lawn, or even sitting out back BBQing while listening to music. I’d do the Pale Ale or even a Kölsch, Czech Lager, or Helles. Let the chips fall where they may.

I also recommend an online retailer that sells grain by the portions of a pound.  Having 3/4 lb of this, half pound of that, etc just causes storage requirements. Great Fermentations and Atlantic Brew Supply are a couple. There may be others.  If not at least get free shipping.

Thanks for the replies.  I ordered the suggested books and I am very interested to find out what’s inside.  I’m really looking for reading material/charts/graphs/whatever regarding what amount of fermentable sugars I can expect from certain grains, color, calculating IBU’s etc…

Before I start using software to help design recipes, I’d like to have the background first.

Thanks for that.  Great idea.

For the BIABers…
Single or Double Crush on the grain?  I have a mill for my Kitchen Aid and thought about crushing my own to get a feel for what works best.  But maybe I should just let the supplier crush them??

Other changes not mentioned,
-Mash chemistry calculators; Bru’n Water works best for me
-Crush; used to be that barely crushing the grain was though to be optimal as a way to control extraction of tannins.  Now that we know how to control tannins through mash chemistry and if necessary acidfying sparge water, a finer crush to maximize efficiency is thought to be better.

  1. My first all-grain was a kolsch. Go figure. It’s still described by mates and my FIL as the best beer I’ve done. Did my research, got my ducks in a row, sanitised twice. I myself quite liked it. I’ve definitely brewed much more skilfully since.

Guess your choice depends on whether or not you’re a member of the church of last resort. “If that’s our last resort, we’ll drink it.”

  1. Yes. Just cut in half. At that level of scaling there’s no need to change the recipe. Scaling up to 500 or 1000 litres, or down from 1000 etc., yes, recipe alteration is a very good idea.

Yeast, download Mr. Malty, or go to Captain Brew on the web and use their yeast calculator.

  1. Don’t use dish soap. Use a blended cleanerof 3G of sodium percarbonate and 2g of sodium metasilicate, per litre of water to fill the vessel you want to clean. (Do not pre-blend. Store the perc and met separately.) Cover and soak overnight, or add your water at 60C and let soak for a couple hours (for your fermenter). Then sanitise with Starsan.

Starsan - Do not fear the foam. It just breaks down into stuff the yeast can utilise over time. Do not rinse with water after sanitising with Starsan.

Dishwasher - heard of it. Haven’t tried. I’ve chosen to use the blended cleaner and Starsan in bottles, as described above.

  1. Home brew shops can vary greatly. I’ve always bought local where possible, but where freshness and quality of advice become a genuine concern, I find a good, local online shop and use them too. The rest of the question I can’t really comment on.

  2. How to Brew, by John Palmer. Get the most recent edition.

Thanks for the great reply and especially for the above.

I plan on brewing a 2.5 gallon batch and fermenting in a 3 gallon carboy.  Maybe the batch hits 2.5 gallons, maybe it will be a little less.  But it won’t be more than 2.5 even if I have to increase the boil time.  Does anyone see a problem with a fermentation blowout using the 3 gallon carboy (typical bung and 3pc air-lock)?  I do have a 5 gallon carboy, but thought the big headspace might cause O2 problems (myth?) or just a difficulty in obtaining a FG reading.  I have a beer thief, but have to believe its easier to get the beer out when its a lot closer to the top of the carboy.

I appreciate everyone’s patience with this novice but this site has been gold to me.

Or forget about yeast calculators and do it the easy, effective way…Old Dog…New Tricks | Experimental Brewing

I’ll also throw out a link to our podcast where we talk about thihs: https://www.experimentalbrew.com/podcast/brew-files-episode-52-getting-back-brewing

There are plenty of good dried yeasts available these days.  I would probably just use a whole package of dried yeast, even though it is supposed to be for 5 gallons.  If you are mail ordering they can handle the heat during summer shipping better than liquid yeast.  Later you can explore the variety of liquid yeasts.

Welcome back to the hobby!  As you know, a LOT has changed in 20 years.  Some things are the same, but the knowledge in this hobby is infinitely more now than it was back then.  Here on the AHA forum, you’ve come to a great place to get some of the best advice.

My own input on your specific questions:

1.  An English Pale Ale is a great style to start out with.  Or go with any style you like.  If you have any questions or want to run recipes past someone, post it here and we will help.

2.  Yes, for 2.5 gallons you can easily divide all the ingredients by 2.  This includes the yeast.  Software can help with recipe design for sure.  Most software can do all the conversions for you if you like.

3.  StarSan is an excellent no-rinse sanitizer.  Don’t worry about off-flavors.  You’d have to use an awful lot to be able to taste any of it in the final beer.  But I do NOT recommend using a dishwasher.

4.  My local homebrew shop doesn’t supply all of the ingredients I need, so I often buy online.  My favorite online shop is MoreBeer.com.  Fast and low cost shipping, and they have EVERYTHING.

5.  Best book recommendation I think is Radical Brewing by Randy Mosher.  This is a really great all-around book.  If you like Belgian beers then Brew Like A Monk by Stan Hieronymous is also outstanding.  And if you just want the basics, can’t go wrong with How To Brew by John Palmer.  Most other books I think are helpful but really not as essential as these few.

Homebrew shops typically mill the grains very very coarse and it results in terrible efficiency.  Better off milling your own.

Cheers!

Starsan anecdote: I pressure ferment, and due to one wrong connection at the wrong time, transferred 2.5L of Starsan into a 20L batch I had just pitched the yeast into ( 2/3 of a gallon Starsan into 5 1/4 gallons of wort).

I had a lot of people taste the final beer without introduction or explanation, including judges, and only one picked anything off, and that was a fermentation issue.

So yeah, RDWAHAHB.

Thanks to all the replies.  I have so re-immersed myself into this hobby that I’m starting to miss the point.  I have read so many threads, visited so many sites, printed out grain info, hops AAU charts, brewing instructions, bought equipment (and then bought more equipment), and I’m now deep into Palmer’s How to Brew.  I have all kinds of information highlighted and various notes everywhere!  I’ve learned more about making beer in the last two weeks than I ever knew brewing extract for years way back when…but I’ve turned into a bit of a crazy obsessive.  The more I learn, the more I realize I don’t know.  And the wheel keeps spinning around.  I might burn out before I ever brew a batch!  :smiley:

Well, no.  That won’t happen, but I do need to RDWAHAHB (I admit, I had to use google)  Sage advice, that.

I’ve learned enough to get myself into trouble.  So a recipe is coming soon and I’ll probably brew on Memorial weekend.  Right after I finish Palmer, fully understand steeping vs. mashing, go over my equipment one more time, consider kegging, calculate hop chemistry at various times and temps… :wink:

Always remember, malted barley WANTS to become beer.  It’s easy.

I will try this recipe.
A simple British Pale Ale

BIAB
2.5 gallons

3.5lbs Maris Otter
.25 lbs Biscuit Malt
.5oz Goldings @ 60
.5oz Goldings @ 30
.5oz Fuggles @ 0
Wyeast British Ale 1098

Mash at 152-155 for 60 minutes.
Boil for 60.

I had my strike volume and boil volume calculations done, but I can’t find them right now.  Pretty sure it was just a little north of 4 gallons strike, leaving me with just a little less than 3.5 for the boil.  Since I haven’t done this type of brewing before, I will just have to pay attention to the boil off rate.

My plan is to make this recipe (adjusted for any suggestions), and then make it again with a slightly different profile.  Then compare the two side by side.  See what I like better.

Any advice appreciated.

FYI, I will be brewing with well water that is hard but has a very clean, odorless taste.  Years ago I had it tested and a softener was suggested but was not considered necessary.  Unfortunately the test results are long since lost.  I’ll try and find my PH before I brew, but for my first batch I won’t be making any chemical adjustments.

Looks good! Nice simple recipe that should  drink very nicely.

You’ve got the right idea, try it and build on your experiences as you go.

Well water that tastes good is a fine place to start.  It will likely have plenty of calcium.  Remember,  pH of the water is irrelevant.  It’s the pH of the mash that’s important, and that is decided by reactions between the malt and ions in the water.  One thing you absolutely don’t want is a softener for brewing water.  It replaces all of the calcium and magnesium (together, hardness) you need with sodium you want to minimize,  while leaving all of the carbonates (alkalinity) that can be a problem.  At some point you may want to have it tested again. Ward Labs offers a test  covering just what you need for brewing, but I don’t have the details, surely someone here will cover this.  Then you could use one of the popular software products to plan adjustments.

For now, enjoy!  Gotta feel good getting back at it.

My kind of recipe!  Two malts two hops. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

I like it.
Good luck.
Relax, don’t worry, make (since you don’t yet have) a homebrew!

Ok, I finally put all this shiny new equipment to use.  I suspect cleaning will never be that easy again.

I made the recipe at the top of this page with the exception of using Lallemand Nottingham Ale yeast because of a supply issue.

I milled the grain myself using a Kitchen Aid grain mill.  My first shot turned the Biscuit malt to powder, so I completely readjusted and got what I believe is a nice grind on the second attempt.  Lesson 1.

I calculated a 3.9 gallon strike volume for a 3.5 gallon boil.  Raised the temperature of the water with the gas burner on the stove and when it hit 158 I turned the burner off and added the grains.  I stirred for a few good minutes and took another temperature reading hoping for 150-152.  I got 156.  Hmm.  Maybe if I slid the pot OFF the still hot burner grate, maybe the temperature drop would have been what I expected. Or maybe there is just a lag time that I didn’t take into account.  Next time I’ll move the pot and wait a minute to see if the temp stabilizes before I add the grain.  Lesson 2.

I covered the pot and let the BIAB steep, checking temp every 15 minutes.
@ 45 - 154
@30 - 151
@ 15 - 149
@ 0 - 146
Not very consistent at all.  I considered the oven method but wasn’t sure if the pot would fit.  I measured after, it would have.  Maybe next time.  Lesson 3.

I removed the grains to a bowl and measured the boil volume.  3.5!  I got something right.

Fired up the burner, and waited for boil.  It came soon enough with a strong but manageable hot break.  I waited for it to subside and added the bittering hops.  That started another volcano, but it was handled with a spritz of water.

Boil continued uneventfully, hops added at 30 and 0. Irish Moss at 15.  I let the wort sit for 10 minutes off the heat so the Fuggles got some play time.  Final volume, 2.75 gallons.  Only 3/4 gallon boil off in an hour.  Boil looked vigorous, maybe not vigorous enough?

Took a gravity reading.  1.030. Ugh!!  I was hoping for 1.042, but was expecting a little less.  Not that far south however.  Some brewhouse efficiency, that.

Forward, march.  The pot went into an ice bath with a thermometer and foil for a lid.  I question the use of the foil but I couldn’t see using a lid and removing it every five minutes to stick a thermometer in there.  Anyway, it took about 30 minutes to get to 70.  A wee too long, more ice next time.  Lesson number…I lost count.

In the meantime I had rehydrated the yeast and that looked just like all the pictures in Palmer’s book.  Nice and frothy.

Racked to a 3 gallon carboy with the auto siphon (greatest invention ever) and pitched the yeast.  Stuck the air lock in and set the carboy, wrapped in a towel, in a 65 degree closet.  If I understand Palmer, it’s beneficial to start a little cooler and then move to about 70-72 after about a week.  We shall see.

All in all, 4 hours and an absolute great time.

BUT, why the poor OG??  My guesses:
1.  Poor grain milling.  I never did it before, but it sure looked just like all the pics I found on line.  I really want to believe this wasn’t the problem.
2.  After the initial stir of the mash, I left the grains alone.  That has to be a mistake.  A little nudging around the pot from time to time probably would have helped.  I can’t see that being the entire problem however.

I suppose I can mash for longer, or sparge.  Or just add more grain (last resort).

If you made it this far, my compliments.  But for what it’s worth, I’m hooked.