# Hard Cider Taste Like Wine! Help **URL:** \ **Category:** General Homebrew Discussion\ **Created:** [February 4, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011 "2015-02-04T06:11:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Jettacider03](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jettacider03](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Jettacider03)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 6:11am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/1 "2015-02-04T06:11:22Z")
Hey Guys first Batch of hard cider,  and failure. Tastes like apple wine. I started using very good directions and fermented with champagne Yeast two weeks. Siphon batch into another sanitary carboy, Then put the airlock back on and let it ferment for another two weeks. The fermentation process took place in my hallway closet close to the thermostat where the thermostat read 70°.behold one month after fermenting I have apple Wine. please help is there any way to revive this cider or should I just toss it out, and also any suggestions on what went wrong? ---
**Author:** ![mtnrockhopper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mtnrockhopper/32/8305_2.png) [@mtnrockhopper](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mtnrockhopper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:38pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/2 "2015-02-04T12:38:33Z")
Cider won’t taste like apple juice any more than wine tastes like grape juice or beer tests like wort. It’s a result of removing all of the sugars. If you want it to taste more appley, you’ll need to back sweeten it. ---
**Author:** ![wort-h.o.g](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/wort-h.o.g/32/11975_2.png) [@wort-h.o.g](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/wort-h.o.g)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:43pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/3 "2015-02-04T12:43:44Z")
just curious- describe the characteristics a little more if you can. taking apple juice and fermenting into cider is somewhat like taking grape juice and fermenting it to make wine. are you saying its really dry and tart like a dry white may be? depending on the juice used and yeast used, you may have or not have much apple character. EDIT: i just used cote des blancs for the first time, and after several racks and cold crash with gelatin, i halted fermentation around 1.008 and there is a ton of apple falvour. ---
**Author:** ![dmtaylor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/dmtaylor/32/9644_2.png) [@dmtaylor](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/dmtaylor)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:48pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/4 "2015-02-04T12:48:50Z")
Champagne yeast ferments all the sugars down to nothing.  Once you are certain the fermentation is complete then you can backsweeten by adding sugar to hit a specific gravity around 1.005 to 1.010 or whatever sweetness level you like, plus add sorbate and sulfite to keep the yeast under control.  These chemicals do not kill the yeast but will prevent them from exploding your bottles. ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:49pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/5 "2015-02-04T12:49:15Z")
+1.  A cider fermented dry is not ‘juice-like’ whatsoever.  I backsweeten all of mine at least a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![udubdawg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e99b99/32.png) [@udubdawg](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/udubdawg)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 12:58pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/6 "2015-02-04T12:58:51Z")
help…drink it?  8) ---
**Author:** ![wort-h.o.g](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/wort-h.o.g/32/11975_2.png) [@wort-h.o.g](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/wort-h.o.g)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 1:02pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/7 "2015-02-04T13:02:07Z")
While I enjoy a really good bone dry champagne because it can still be very aromatic and have great taste, I think Apple juice fermented bone dry will be very blah. ---
**Author:** ![udubdawg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e99b99/32.png) [@udubdawg](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/udubdawg)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 1:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/8 "2015-02-04T13:12:01Z")
> [@wort-h.o.g](#): > > While I enjoy a really good bone dry champagne because it can still be very aromatic and have great taste, I think Apple juice fermented bone dry will be very blah. assuming OP used some bland store-bought juice, sure, but to truly help we need to know what their goal was anyway.  I think it’ll be clear to them from the responses that nothing necessarily “went wrong” but what kind of product were they hoping to produce/hoping to turn this into now? ---
**Author:** ![Jettacider03](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jettacider03](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Jettacider03)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/9 "2015-02-04T14:41:37Z")
The goal was to create a dryer more crisp cider such a strong bow or Stella which the clarity was there however the flavor was not. I used the blend of apples with the Macintosh crabapple and Fuji apples juiced it myself and pasteurized it at about 120° versus using Camden tablets. What would you guys recommend for back sweetening besides just regular sugar? ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:49pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/10 "2015-02-04T14:49:54Z")
> [@Jettacider03](#): > > The goal was to create a dryer more crisp cider such a strong bow or Stella which the clarity was there however the flavor was not. I used the blend of apples with the Macintosh crabapple and Fuji apples juiced it myself and pasteurized it at about 120° versus using Camden tablets. What would you guys recommend for back sweetening besides just regular sugar? I sulfate and sorbate a couple days before kegging to stabilize and then use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to adjust the sweetness and acidity to where I want. I pour a pint of the dry cider and add the acid and concentrate until it’s just right, and then scale those additions up to 5 gallons. ---
**Author:** ![dbeechum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/dbeechum/32/12418_2.png) [@dbeechum](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/dbeechum)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/11 "2015-02-04T14:50:21Z")
Apple juice concentrate does a really fantastic job as a back sweetening agent. ---
**Author:** ![wort-h.o.g](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/wort-h.o.g/32/11975_2.png) [@wort-h.o.g](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/wort-h.o.g)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/12 "2015-02-04T14:55:13Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@Jettacider03](#): > > > > The goal was to create a dryer more crisp cider such a strong bow or Stella which the clarity was there however the flavor was not. I used the blend of apples with the Macintosh crabapple and Fuji apples juiced it myself and pasteurized it at about 120° versus using Camden tablets. What would you guys recommend for back sweetening besides just regular sugar? > > I sulfate and sorbate a couple days before kegging to stabilize and then use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to adjust the sweetness and acidity to where I want. I pour a pint of the dry cider and add the acid and concentrate until it’s just right, and then scale those additions up to 5 gallons. sulfites not sulfates right? ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:56pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/13 "2015-02-04T14:56:19Z")
> [@wort-h.o.g](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@Jettacider03](#): > > > > > > The goal was to create a dryer more crisp cider such a strong bow or Stella which the clarity was there however the flavor was not. I used the blend of apples with the Macintosh crabapple and Fuji apples juiced it myself and pasteurized it at about 120° versus using Camden tablets. What would you guys recommend for back sweetening besides just regular sugar? > > > > I sulfate and sorbate a couple days before kegging to stabilize and then use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to adjust the sweetness and acidity to where I want. I pour a pint of the dry cider and add the acid and concentrate until it’s just right, and then scale those additions up to 5 gallons. > > sulfites not sulfates right? Yep.  Must need more coffee. No gypsum in cider for me  😉 ---
**Author:** ![wort-h.o.g](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/wort-h.o.g/32/11975_2.png) [@wort-h.o.g](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/wort-h.o.g)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/14 "2015-02-04T14:57:24Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@wort-h.o.g](#): > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > [@Jettacider03](#): > > > > > > > > The goal was to create a dryer more crisp cider such a strong bow or Stella which the clarity was there however the flavor was not. I used the blend of apples with the Macintosh crabapple and Fuji apples juiced it myself and pasteurized it at about 120° versus using Camden tablets. What would you guys recommend for back sweetening besides just regular sugar? > > > > > > I sulfate and sorbate a couple days before kegging to stabilize and then use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to adjust the sweetness and acidity to where I want. I pour a pint of the dry cider and add the acid and concentrate until it’s just right, and then scale those additions up to 5 gallons. > > > > sulfites not sulfates right? > > Yep.  Must need more coffee. No gypsum in cider for me  😉 haha…yeah that would suck ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/15 "2015-02-04T14:59:01Z")
> [@wort-h.o.g](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@wort-h.o.g](#): > > > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > > > > [@Jettacider03](#): > > > > > > > > > > The goal was to create a dryer more crisp cider such a strong bow or Stella which the clarity was there however the flavor was not. I used the blend of apples with the Macintosh crabapple and Fuji apples juiced it myself and pasteurized it at about 120° versus using Camden tablets. What would you guys recommend for back sweetening besides just regular sugar? > > > > > > > > I sulfate and sorbate a couple days before kegging to stabilize and then use apple juice concentrate and malic acid to adjust the sweetness and acidity to where I want. I pour a pint of the dry cider and add the acid and concentrate until it’s just right, and then scale those additions up to 5 gallons. > > > > > > sulfites not sulfates right? > > > > Yep.  Must need more coffee. No gypsum in cider for me  😉 > > haha…yeah that would suck Yeah, it can be dry enough as is .  😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jettacider03](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jettacider03](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Jettacider03)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/16 "2015-02-04T15:40:07Z")
Gypsum? ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/17 "2015-02-04T15:41:50Z")
> [@Jettacider03](#): > > Gypsum? I used the word ‘sulfate’ instead of ‘sulfite’.  Calcium sulfate is what we know as gypsum - great in hoppy beer, has no place in cider. My bad. ---
**Author:** ![Jettacider03](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@Jettacider03](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Jettacider03)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 3:43pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/18 "2015-02-04T15:43:22Z")
so my plan of action to crash cool the yeast to die then back sweeten with apple juice concentrate to taste. Guess racking at this point is pointless. So I just need to bottle it and it’s ready to drink? ---
**Author:** ![skatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/skatz/32/6982_2.png) [@skatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/skatz)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:02pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/19 "2015-02-04T16:02:09Z")
> [@dbeechum](#): > > Apple juice concentrate does a really fantastic job as a back sweetening agent. Listen to this guy ^^^^ I hear he wrote the book on the subject and you should buy it. ---
**Author:** ![mtnrockhopper](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mtnrockhopper/32/8305_2.png) [@mtnrockhopper](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mtnrockhopper)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011/20 "2015-02-04T16:15:54Z")
> [@Jettacider03](#): > > The goal was to create a dryer more crisp cider such a strong bow or Stella which the clarity was there however the flavor was not. I used the blend of apples with the Macintosh crabapple and Fuji apples juiced it myself and pasteurized it at about 120° versus using Camden tablets. What would you guys recommend for back sweetening besides just regular sugar? Although Strongbow and other name-brand ciders claim to be dry, they are not even close. What they have is substantial acidity which balances residual sugar and leaves a dry impression. If you look at the nutrition labels, Strongbow has ~15g sugar per 12oz serving. That’s the equivalent of backsweetening 5 gallons with 3 cups of sugar or a FG ~1.015. The sugar really does amazing things to bring back apple flavor. I find 1 cup in 5 gallons takes the edge of dry cider without seeming sweet. Apple juice or concentrate works very well too. I use the nutrition label and math to determine how much sugar is added per volume of juice/concentrate. [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hard-cider-taste-like-wine-help/19011.md?page=2)