# Hitting you mash pH **URL:** \ **Category:** Brewing Processes\ **Created:** [December 15, 2015, 9:27pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876 "2015-12-15T21:27:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![joeg13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/joeg13/32/5491_2.png) [@joeg13](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/joeg13)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 3:22am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/21 "2015-12-17T03:22:45Z")
> [@](#): > > Bru’n water all the way, every time. Is that because you find it more accurate or easier to use? ---
**Author:** ![PORTERHAUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/df705f/32.png) [@PORTERHAUS](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/PORTERHAUS)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 10:48am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/22 "2015-12-17T10:48:10Z")
> [@joeg13](#): > > I’ve heard recommendations for Brun’water and Brewer’s Friend’s advanced calculator. Anyone EZ Water Calculator?  I find that one the easiest. EZ Water is easy to use I give it that. I started out using EZ water and I still compare it against Bru’n Water just to see where they both estimate things. I have found them both quite accurate, Bru’n Water a bit more accurate. Ez Water is easy, especially for someone starting out with adjusting their water and trying to get a handle on things. But Bru’n Water has more too it and includes some handy features EZ doesn’t have. Bru’n Water was quite overwhelming for me to look over at first…it took me a while to know how to work through the program. That being said, for the most part EZ water estimates about .1 higher than Ez water or Bru’n Water estimates about .1 lower ph than Ez Water. I usally fall right in between the difference…close enough for me. The water profile for any water additions match closely as well. The real difference I see is when you start making adjustments with acid, after that the Alkalinity and RA numbers are way from eachother (not that it matters) and ph estimation gets further apart between the two programs. Before any acid additions, they estimate ph quite close. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/1X/f1a2211dcb353b921ed70873794a31db2031eccc.png) [@system](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 12:41pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/23 "2015-12-17T12:41:40Z")
> [@joeg13](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Bru’n water all the way, every time. > > Is that because you find it more accurate or easier to use? It definitely seems more accurate and comprehensive. If your toying with water already than ease of use shouldn’t be a consideration. Once you figure out Bru’n water and how to manipulate it then it’s very simple to use. ---
**Author:** ![charles1968](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@charles1968](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/charles1968)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2015, 1:16pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/24 "2015-12-17T13:16:47Z")
The standard version of Bru’n water doesn’t have an option to include CRS additions but Brewersfriend does. Otherwise very similar results. Brewersfriend’s water calculator is integrated into the recipe builder, which is very handy if you use the site for building recipes, but you can use it on its own too. I wouldn’t recommend either for a beginner though. First priority is to find out what it’s your own water and understand how alkalinity affects mash pH. Otherwise you’ll end up have problems with terms like hardness and carbonate - source of much grief on homebrew forums. ---
**Author:** ![jimpdx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jimpdx/32/12005_2.png) [@jimpdx](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jimpdx)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/25 "2015-12-18T17:51:44Z")
Here is the question that has been bugging me lately. Even using Brun’ Water I rarely hit my target. I have written to Martin about it and re-tested my water so I must be doing something else wrong. But regardless, I pull a sample about 15 minutes into the initial mash rest, cool it over ice water, take the measurement. Once I know what adjustment to make, it ends up being 25-30 minutes before I can nail my pH. Does this cause any issues? Ideally I would nail the pH target immediately but since I am sometimes high and sometimes low, I can’t exactly make a blanket adjustment in advance. In general, my new theory is to stick with absolutely minimal adjustments. I think part of my problem has been TOO MANY adjustments. For example on a recent Wee Heavy I had 10 different grains in my malt bill - 45 pounds on a 12G batch. I wanted to accentuate body, maltiness, roundness, sweetness, etc. In order to hit a 5.4 mash pH I had calculated the following additions (added to mash only) with pretty soft/clean Portland water: - Gypsum - 4g - Calcium Chloride - 8g - Epsom Salt - 6g - Baking Soda - 5g With these additions I should have produced the following mash water: - Calcium - 66ppm - Magnesium - 11ppm - Sodium - 27ppm - Sulfate - 77ppm - Chloride - 90ppm - Bicarbonate - 82ppm 20 minutes into the mash my first pH reading was 5.7. I was able to get it down to 5.4 using 3/4tsp of Lactic Acid. But that adjustment took place 1/2 way into the mash. Should I not worry about the 30 minutes of the mash sitting at the higher pH? ---
**Author:** ![joeg13](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/joeg13/32/5491_2.png) [@joeg13](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/joeg13)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 7:04pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/26 "2015-12-18T19:04:43Z")
After you take your mash ph reading at 15 mins how do you calculate how much acid or baking soda to add?  The spreadsheets all seem to focus on pre brew session planning, not adjustments along the way. ---
**Author:** ![jimpdx](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jimpdx/32/12005_2.png) [@jimpdx](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jimpdx)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2015, 7:06pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/27 "2015-12-18T19:06:58Z")
> [@joeg13](#): > > After you take your mash ph reading at 15 mins how do you calculate how much acid or baking soda to add?  The spreadsheets all seem to focus on pre brew session planning, not adjustments along the way. Excellent point! I look back at previous brew logs and I see where I added say 8ml of lactic acid and saw a drop of 0.3 pH, and adjust for the batch size. It is a rough approximation but usually gets me close. I don’t think I ever found a calculator for those adjustments. Great idea @MartinBrugard for next version! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![charles1968](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@charles1968](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/charles1968)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2015, 12:39am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/28 "2015-12-19T00:39:36Z")
> [@jimpdx](#): > > Here is the question that has been bugging me lately. Even using Brun’ Water I rarely hit my target. I have written to Martin about it and re-tested my water so I must be doing something else wrong. But regardless, I pull a sample about 15 minutes into the initial mash rest, cool it over ice water, take the measurement. Once I know what adjustment to make, it ends up being 25-30 minutes before I can nail my pH. Does this cause any issues? Ideally I would nail the pH target immediately but since I am sometimes high and sometimes low, I can’t exactly make a blanket adjustment in advance. In general, my new theory is to stick with absolutely minimal adjustments. I think part of my problem has been TOO MANY adjustments. > > For example on a recent Wee Heavy I had 10 different grains in my malt bill - 45 pounds on a 12G batch. I wanted to accentuate body, maltiness, roundness, sweetness, etc. In order to hit a 5.4 mash pH I had calculated the following additions (added to mash only) with pretty soft/clean Portland water: > > - Gypsum - 4g > - Calcium Chloride - 8g > - Epsom Salt - 6g > - Baking Soda - 5g > > With these additions I should have produced the following mash water: > > - Calcium - 66ppm > - Magnesium - 11ppm > - Sodium - 27ppm > - Sulfate - 77ppm > - Chloride - 90ppm > - Bicarbonate - 82ppm > > 20 minutes into the mash my first pH reading was 5.7. I was able to get it down to 5.4 using 3/4tsp of Lactic Acid. But that adjustment took place 1/2 way into the mash. Should I not worry about the 30 minutes of the mash sitting at the higher pH? Some people have inconsistent tap water - alkalinity can swing unpredictably. It might be worth measuring alkalinity before your next 5 or 6 brews to see if it changes. Depends where you live. Mine is very steady. ---
**Author:** ![PAYCHECK](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/paycheck/32/8865_2.png) [@PAYCHECK](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/PAYCHECK)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 12:09am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/29 "2015-12-26T00:09:07Z")
> [@blatz](#): > > i use bru’n water, start with RO, and try to achieve the target water profile selected, and then only use lactic or add acid malt if necessary. Hitting a PH level at the beginning of the mash is optimal.  PH can also affect your mash with regards to the grain husks and bitter or off notes. ---
**Author:** ![mabrungard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mabrungard/32/12430_2.png) [@mabrungard](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mabrungard)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:28am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/30 "2015-12-26T02:28:00Z")
> [@jimpdx](#): > > 20 minutes into the mash my first pH reading was 5.7. I was able to get it down to 5.4 using 3/4tsp of Lactic Acid. But that adjustment took place 1/2 way into the mash. Should I not worry about the 30 minutes of the mash sitting at the higher pH? I can virtually guarantee that you were chasing your tail. The fact is that mash pH varies during a mash. I’ve noted a fairly consistent tendency for a high initial pH to fall a bit during the mash and a low pH to rise a bit. There seems to be a buffering action that tends to bring mash pH closer to 5.4. So that 5.7 would have naturally fallen if you had given it time. My strong recommendation is to NOT adjust mash pH during the mash. Make the predetermined adjustments using a program like Bru’n Water and let the pH go. Do monitor the actual room temperature pH during the mash and make note of the final pH at the end of the mash. If its more than a couple of tenths off, make a note of it and add either a dose of acid or alkali to the kettle to bring the pH closer to expectation. But don’t chase pH during the mash since it will vary by itself. Jim, did you measure the kettle wort pH before the boil? I’m curious if the pH was at your target or below. ---
**Author:** ![jimmykx250](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jimmykx250/32/19_2.png) [@jimmykx250](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jimmykx250)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/31 "2015-12-26T14:55:53Z")
I’m curious coming from a guy who uses unsoftened well water thru a carbon block filter and brew mostly hop forward beers. Will I benefit from diving into water chemistry? I’m curious but it seems like a lot of work! ---
**Author:** ![jimmykx250](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jimmykx250/32/19_2.png) [@jimmykx250](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jimmykx250)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 2:59pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/32 "2015-12-26T14:59:00Z")
I’m curious coming from a guy who uses unsoftened well water thru a carbon block filter and brew mostly hop forward beers. Will I benefit from diving into water chemistry? I’m curious but it seems like a lot of work! ---
**Author:** ![skatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/skatz/32/6982_2.png) [@skatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/skatz)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/33 "2015-12-26T15:47:56Z")
> [@jimmykx250](#): > > I’m curious coming from a guy who uses unsoftened well water thru a carbon block filter and brew mostly hop forward beers. Will I benefit from diving into water chemistry? I’m curious but it seems like a lot of work! > > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I think you would. You could get a water test done and use bru’n water to figure out what sort of water dilutions and salt additions you would need. It’s not hard once you do it a couple of times. ---
**Author:** ![jimmykx250](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jimmykx250/32/19_2.png) [@jimmykx250](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jimmykx250)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/34 "2015-12-26T17:12:21Z")
I think i may go this route and get my water tested. I will send out the water to get tested but is ward labs the way to go? I have some townships by me who will test for anything I want. Is there any difference? Thank guys. ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 5:14pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/35 "2015-12-26T17:14:55Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@jimmykx250](#): > > > > I’m curious coming from a guy who uses unsoftened well water thru a carbon block filter and brew mostly hop forward beers. Will I benefit from diving into water chemistry? I’m curious but it seems like a lot of work! > > > > Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk > > I think you would. You could get a water test done and use bru’n water to figure out what sort of water dilutions and salt additions you would need. It’s not hard once you do it a couple of times. +1.  Even assuming you’re hitting good pH now, there is still the improvement that can come from using the right flavor profile for the right beer. It can seem daunting at first but it really isn’t. It’s really worth it IMO. ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2015, 5:33pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876/36 "2015-12-26T17:33:19Z")
> [@jimmykx250](#): > > I think i may go this route and get my water tested. I will send out the water to get tested but is ward labs the way to go? I have some townships by me who will test for anything I want. Is there any difference? Thank guys. If you can get it tested for the same stuff Ward tests for at the same price, go for it.  My experience is that probably isn’t likely. [Previous page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/hitting-you-mash-ph/21876.md?page=1)