I’m sure this will be contentious, but I wanted to see how others felt about this before I send my thoughts to the AHA directly.
While I support the Brewing Network and enjoy their content, it’s just silly that they are allowed to be considered an AHA club towards Homebrew Club of the Year… By default they reach far more people than any other club possibly could. Assuming no changes, they pretty much have ‘homebrew club of the year’ locked up for eternity unless another national club starts. To me and many others, a club means a local group of homebrewers that are specific to a region or geographical area. I imagine it is demoralizing to great clubs like QUAFF and other regional groups that have worked hard to build a local scene and community, and not have a chance towards club of the year.
Also, I would have liked to see the “Final Round Club of the Year” (Gambrinus Club Award?) get equal airtime to talk on the mic at the banquet as the BN did.
From what I have seen/read, this is an ongoing issue, and not likely to end soon. I entered nothing, so my thoughts dont hold as much water, but I agree with you completely
I love The BN and believe they have contributed an insurmountable amount of information to the homebrewing community. Being my first NHC, I was under the impression the booing when they won (which we all expected) was for fun. I’m not sure what I really think about the fact they continue to win CotY, but I’m compelled to encourage the formation of perhaps a collaborative new (and huge) club that’s focused solely on winning this award. It may take some time, but I don’t think it’s impossible, and my guess is even The BN would view it as a fun thing.
Ultimately, “we” are who makeup the BN Army (I am a member), we are this community. The fact they are now expected to win based purely on their numbers absolutely waters down the award. Hmm.
I didn’t boo at the banquet, but I can see why others might have.
I guess to me it’s an issue of club vs community.
A club is a group of individuals from an area that meets up to share homebrew, organize competitions, participate in and organize brewing related events. There is a regional pride aspect to a club I think, it was really cool to see the clubs from St Paul MN, Austin TX, and Woodbridge NJ spar in the final round and edge each other out for that COTY (final round medals count) title.
A community focuses much less on the local aspect on more on the gathering of like minded people in one place with no geographical requirement. I would consider groups like r/homebrewing, homebrewtalk, and the Brewing Network, communities. These are groups with 100k+ members and if they all organized and rallied their members the same way the BN did no local club would ever have a chance again.
I fully understand that others may not share these definitions with me.
I have no ill will toward the BN, but they are an entirely different animal. They can field entrants in every region in the country. This is not a level playing field. No regional club can make a run at the Club of the Year award.
Yeah, when the St Paul Homebrewers club threepeated we did have Gordon Strong competing with us, but we only needed his points one year to actually win it. Also, we only had one extra guy in one extra region NOT in every region in the country.
Also, when QUAFF did 6 in a row, they did have Jamil in a second region. Again, however, only 2 regions in one state. Not the same as EVERY REGION in the country.
In my opinion Club of the Year has become a joke. The award has been cheapened.
Again, I’ll repeat: No rancor toward the BN, but seriously…
So we could probably form a super Midwest club or a large anit-BN club and get some great brewers on board to take on BN, which there’s been talk about doing, but what would that prove or mean? It would just be the same BS.
Enough. I’m sick of the argument about the BN enabling someone who can’t join a club…blah blah blah…there’s a difference between a regionally based local club where people actually have meetings and know each other personally, and a virtual club.
As someone who’s claimed BN as my club in numerous comps, this is important. I don’t claim them as my club anymore, however.
The award is basically just “largest homebrew club” so if BN is discounted, why? They’ve done what they needed to become the largest club. Alternately, it’s “club with an absurd number of NHC entries” and again, they’ve done a great job encouraging brewing competition and entering NHC, so why should they be discounted because they’ve been successful in that area. Congratulating that is a good thing, IMO.
The Radegast award is a much loftier goal for clubs to shoot for overall, IMO, but if you are looking for something competition-wise to shoot for, then the Gambrinus award is a loftier goal than ‘club of the year’, because Gambrinus accounts for size of the club.
Maybe this is a disagreement on the naming of the different awards? I don’t think I agree that Gambrinus should be renamed ‘club of the year’. Pretty much everyone considers the Ninkasi to be the top individual award, not Homebrewer of the Year right? So the name isn’t strictly attached to the prestige of the award, it would seem.
I think maybe it would be better to just shift the prestige to the Gambrinus award, than try to rule out the BN artificially somehow.
I was not booing, but no it was not for fun. People don’t like this.
You have to think about this for a moment to realize the level of frustration for clubs that are not nationally based. They can’t compete.
Even large regional clubs can barely do so. We can’t in St Paul anymore. We don’t have the numbers.
Also, calling the BN a club…well…yeah, there is that aspect, but isn’t it also a business? Isn’t someone making money off this? Seriously? Please correct me if I’m wrong.
While the BN has provided info to people, it’s not the be all and end all of brewing.
Yeah, I guess that’s what it has become, but it should NOT be that, in my opinion.
When the St Paul Homebrewers threepeated we were not even the largest club in the state of Minnesota. We set a goal to take on QUAFF. It took us 4 years, but we managed to do it with a lot of great LOCAL brewers, not a virtual alliance of people who don’t really know one another beyond making dick jokes online.
Why shouldn’t other regional clubs be able to set that goal and go for it? Do we really have to form some huge alliance to take down BN just to prove a point? And what difference would that make?
I think just giving more clout/attention to the Gambrinus winner would be better IMO. Whichever club wins the most second round medals should be the overall club of the year. Why bother giving a second round award to the club with most first round medals?
This year the WHALES club from Woodbridge NJ won, are they considered a huge club?
You may have a point here, because the rules of NHC entry have changed. Back when you could enter as many beers as you could get an entry for, a smaller club could out compete a larger club with quality. That is not the case anymore. With a 4 entry limit, I suspect a sheer number of entrants is the #1 factor for winning this award.
That said, a huge competition focused ‘local’ club could just become the new “unbeatable” BN for that award if they were discounted artificially. I don’t know. I feel like overall, this is just a lot of complaining with little to no actual solution aside from the Gambrinus award, which already exists.
The dick jokes, misogyny, and general baseness is one of the reasons I don’t list them as my club anymore.
It gives a sense of teamwork, community, and being a part of something that folks out in rural areas (like myself) can’t get as part of a proper club.
I understand what Steve, Denny, and others mean, but I’m not sure there is an easy answer to fix this.
The award has definitely been cheapened if the outcome is a foregone conclusion, especially when members of each physical club are working hard to have a good showing, and their efforts are swept away by a tide of entrants claiming an affiliation with hundreds of other people they have never met before.
Personally, I’d like to see the AHA require clubs to register with the AHA and pay a nominal per-member annual registration fee (something $5 per member, minimum $200). Only registered members of registered clubs would be able to claim affiliation for the club of the year, and others’ claims would be deleted by the software. I think this puts everyone on an equal footing, and while $5 is not enough to pose a real barrier, I suspect it might make it harder for BN to collect and pay those nickels from as far and wide as their fans range.
That being said, I hesitate to recommend anything more radical that would shrink, rather than enlarge, our hobby. I would way rather see thousands of excited homebrewers brought/kept in the hobby by BN, even if it means BN wins the club comp every year, than say bye to those folks.
For example, I would like to be in a club – and even have several clubs of national standing in my area – but cannot due to other commitments. Having to ability to make some claim to a community helps, and I’ve claimed Chop N’ Brew as my “club” in smaller comps in the past.
I didn’t realize that airtime at the awards was not equal between the two awards. This is the proper corrective action IMO. Either both get a speech, or neither. Heck, if one should get a speech, it should be the Gambrinus winner because they are the higher quality club, IMO.
I’m not sure I agree here. The BN club was initially opposed by Justin and the BN employees. It was registered only because a BN fan did so, and encouraged other BN fans to enter as BN club members.
TONS of homebrew clubs around the country are formed, hosted, and potentially ran by homebrew shops. Some even have the name of the shop in the title of the club. I don’t see how this distinction can be made about the BN, but not HBS based clubs.
“I don’t recognize your bullshit club” Clay Morrow - President SAMCRO
Disclaimer: Im a Sergeant in the BN Army (only way I will ever get the title Sergeant is to pay for it). I have not yet placed in any competition. I have not been to NHC. There are a couple tiny clubs, each an hour from my brewery, who do not meet on days that shift work schmucks like me can go to. In the brewing club world im considered unaffiliated. The BN Army allows me to feel patched in as a Nomad of the biggest club in the world.
The BN Army continuing to win the NHC COTY is amazing and Justin ought to be flush with pride. The booing I hear about, if any of it is serious, can’t be directed at the BN. There’s too few of them. If every BN crew member entered every comp and medaled monthly, it wouldnt be enough points to win. Maybe you think you are booing guys like us who claim BN as their club. But in reality you are booing yourself for not getting on the competition committee and change the rules. Or not having built a homebrew infotainment empire that out numbers the BN.
Final friendly reminder. They don’t keep winning because they have 100,000 guys like me who can’t even place in a competition. Its not about how many mediocre brewers you have. I’ll bet the BN has the lowest ratio of medal winners to losers than any other club. Suppose that someone did the study and found that the BN only had 100 brewers who won medals. Thats probably more likely that the notion that they have 50,000 who each won one third place medal. So, losers really dont matter when it comes to COTY, right? If thats so, what would it matter if the BN had a million members?
In my opinion a rules change will only create a whole new set of problems. If you “fix” the regional issue, you just eliminated everyone who doesn’t live near a metropolis. (If the number of members issue is true)
