# Imperial Stout - Help! **URL:** \ **Category:** Beer Recipes\ **Created:** [January 24, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238 "2016-01-24T18:57:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Attik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Attik](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Attik)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 6:57pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/1 "2016-01-24T18:57:51Z")
We are planning on brewing an all grain imperial stout. I have attached the recipe and would really appreciate some feedback. Not sure about the quantities of malt used but from the research I have undertaken is seems to be quite reasonable. Furthermore, I have used the Bru’n software to develop the water profile for this beer. I have chosen the option of Black Balanced to achieve the following parameters Ca: 60 Mg: 10 Na: 20 SO4: 47 Cl: 38 HCO3: 160 My starting water profile is: Ca: 48 Mg: 14 Na: 12 SO4: 36 Cl: 37 HCO3: 158 To this water we added 0.04 grams/L gypsum, 0.02 grams/L of NaCl. The total amount of water used is 70 litres - 50 litres to mash and 20 litres to sparge: Ca: 57 Mg: 14 Na: 20 SO4: 58 Cl: 39 HCO3: 158 It is quite close to the one specified by the water software. Adding the malts we get a mash pH of 3.4 which is extremely low. We are not sure where we have gone wrong. Could it be because of the malts used? As you can see the water profile is low on alkalinity however increasing it would imply deviating from what the Bru’n software recomends. Any and all help would be seriously appreciated. Thanks! Type: All Grain Batch Size: 40,00 l Boil Size: 50,64 l Boil Time: 90 min End of Boil Vol: 42,64 l Final Bottling Vol: 40,00 l Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage Date: 18 Jan 2016 Efficiency: 72,00 % Est Mash Efficiency: 73,8 % Ingredients Amt Name Type # %/IBU 80,00 l Agua Pinillo Water 1 - 15,40 kg Pale Malt, Maris Otter (5,9 EBC) Grain 2 86,7 % 0,50 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (150,0 EBC) Grain 3 2,8 % 0,50 kg Chocolate Malt (886,5 EBC) Grain 4 2,8 % 0,44 kg Biscuit Malt (45,3 EBC) Grain 5 2,5 % 0,44 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3,9 EBC) Grain 6 2,5 % 0,29 kg Roasted Barley (1250,0 EBC) Grain 7 1,7 % 0,20 kg Black Barley (Stout) (985,0 EBC) Grain 8 1,1 % 92,60 g Target [11,00 %] - Boil 60,0 min Hop 9 47,8 IBUs 46,30 g Admiral [14,75 %] - Boil 30,0 min Hop 10 22,8 IBUs 4,0 pkg British Ale Yeast (Mangrove Jack’s #M07) Yeast 11 - Est Original Gravity: 1,099 SG Est Final Gravity: 1,025 SG Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9,8 % Bitterness: 70,6 IBUs Est Color: 79,9 EBC Measured Original Gravity: 1,046 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1,010 SG Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4,7 % Calories: 427,1 kcal/l Mash Name: Infusión simple + Mashout Sparge Water: 6,13 l Sparge Temperature: 98,0 C Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Total Grain Weight: 17,78 kg Grain Temperature: 20,0 C Tun Temperature: 20,0 C Mash PH: 5,20 Mash Steps Name Description Step Temperature Step Time Infusion simple Add 37,03 l of water at 75,7 C 66,0 C 80 min Moshout Add 29,63 l of water at 96,2 C 78,0 C 10 min ---
**Author:** ![majorvices](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/majorvices/32/12825_2.png) [@majorvices](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/majorvices)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/2 "2016-01-24T19:28:58Z")
You are going to need a lot more roasted barley. Should be around 10% of your grist. There’s no need for the cara pils. You should remove it. ---
**Author:** ![fmader](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/fmader/32/11371_2.png) [@fmader](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/fmader)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/3 "2016-01-24T23:07:31Z")
I would also cut the carapils and black malt. Up your chocolate and roasted barley. That pH isn’t going to work for you. I add baking soda to my water to raise the mash pH to about 5.6 for my dark beers. I certainly would recommend mashing higher than 5.2. As far as the low pH in your Bru’n water… Did you adjust the water amounts? I’ve forgotten to do that. ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/4 "2016-01-24T23:27:07Z")
> [@fmader](#): > > I would also cut the carapils and black malt. Up your chocolate and roasted barley. > > That pH isn’t going to work for you. I add baking soda to my water to raise the mash pH to about 5.6 for my dark beers. I certainly would recommend mashing higher than 5.2. As far as the low pH in your Bru’n water… Did you adjust the water amounts? I’ve forgotten to do that. +1.  More roasted barley and chocolate + 5.6 mash pH for sure. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/1X/f1a2211dcb353b921ed70873794a31db2031eccc.png) [@system](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 3:00am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/5 "2016-01-25T03:00:49Z")
The mash PH in Bru’n Water says 3.4 estimate?  Putting in the information you provided the only way I got close to that is if I called the 15.4kg Marris Otter a ‘Roast Malt’ instead of ‘Base Malt.’  If I select it as a ‘Base Malt’ it estimates PH 5.6, if select ‘Roast Malt’ it goes to PH 3.5. ---
**Author:** ![Attik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/258eb7/32.png) [@Attik](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Attik)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 8:41am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/6 "2016-01-25T08:41:45Z")
Yes! Thats just what I did. Silly mistake regarding the water. 😢 About the malts, I’ll take off carapils and add more roasted barley and maybe more chocolate, al though I have a feeling it’ll come out very sweet and I would prefer it a bit dry. Maybe add up a bit of black malt or will it be too high? Does 70ibu make sense? First time trying a stout… :-\ Thanks in advance!! ---
**Author:** ![fmader](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/fmader/32/11371_2.png) [@fmader](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/fmader)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 10:19am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/7 "2016-01-25T10:19:52Z")
> [@Attik](#): > > Yes! Thats just what I did. Silly mistake regarding the water. 😢 > > About the malts, I’ll take off carapils and add more roasted barley and maybe more chocolate, al though I have a feeling it’ll come out very sweet and I would prefer it a bit dry. Maybe add up a bit of black malt or will it be too high? Does 70ibu make sense? > First time trying a stout… :-\ > > Thanks in advance!! Glad we got the water figured out. If you’re worried about it being too sweet, I’d drop the biscuit malt too. But definetely kick the roast malts up a notch. Mash low at about 148 degrees for 90 minutes. 70 IBUs is fine. ---
**Author:** ![JJeffers09](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jjeffers09/32/11256_2.png) [@JJeffers09](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/JJeffers09)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/8 "2016-01-25T16:00:32Z")
try to hit 5.4 pH for a little more dry stout, like an Irish Stout.  If you are looking for that full rich, smooth roasted character having harder water and higher pH in the 5.6 range will get you there.  I like a touch of midnight wheat in my Imp Stout for head retention and some body.  But I would not use American Roasted Barley, try to find UK. IBU I like the low 60’s But I would use the Bitter Hops Admiral for the long boil and the Aroma hops like fuggle or target for your late hop addition. ---
**Author:** ![reverseapachemaster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/reverseapachemaster/32/19_2.png) [@reverseapachemaster](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/reverseapachemaster)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2016, 4:40pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/9 "2016-01-25T16:40:20Z")
I agree on ditching the carapils and adding considerably more roasted barley and chocolate malt. I like a little black malt in my stouts but if you’re adding a lot more chocolate malt then I’d probably ditch the black malt. Biscuit malt is interesting in stouts. It works but it definitely stands out as a biscuit flavor even in low amounts. Probably not something to add unless you really want that flavor. ---
**Author:** ![majorvices](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/majorvices/32/12825_2.png) [@majorvices](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/majorvices)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/10 "2016-01-26T01:39:14Z")
> [@JJeffers09](#): > > try to hit 5.4 pH for a little more dry stout, like an Irish Stout.  If you are looking for that full rich, smooth roasted character having harder water and higher pH in the 5.6 range will get you there.  I like a touch of midnight wheat in my Imp Stout for head retention and some body.  But I would not use American Roasted Barley, try to find UK. > > IBU I like the low 60’s > But I would use the Bitter Hops Admiral for the long boil and the Aroma hops like fuggle or target for your late hop addition. There’s no way the Midnight wheat contributes to any head retention, though I do agree it has a nice flavor. ---
**Author:** ![JJeffers09](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jjeffers09/32/11256_2.png) [@JJeffers09](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/JJeffers09)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2016, 2:56pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/11 "2016-01-26T14:56:05Z")
It throws some protein in the mix doesn’t it?  I am not sure the roast completely denatures the wheat. ---
**Author:** ![snowtiger87](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/snowtiger87/32/9272_2.png) [@snowtiger87](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/snowtiger87)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 6:18am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/12 "2016-01-28T06:18:39Z")
Replace the Biscuit Malt with Special B. You will be glad you did. I agree with the others on no Dextrine and upping the roasted barley. ---
**Author:** ![majorvices](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/majorvices/32/12825_2.png) [@majorvices](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/majorvices)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 11:16am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/13 "2016-01-28T11:16:09Z")
> [@JJeffers09](#): > > It throws some protein in the mix doesn’t it?  I am not sure the roast completely denatures the wheat. Not enough to matter at the low percentage you would be using it. ---
**Author:** ![JJeffers09](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jjeffers09/32/11256_2.png) [@JJeffers09](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/JJeffers09)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2016, 2:29pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/imperial-stout-help/22238/14 "2016-01-28T14:29:37Z")
good point.