Listening to a popular podcast that I really like and heard this… ‘well, they say that Guinness adds old sour beer to new batches to get that sourness’. (Paraphrasing, because I’m not going to listen back for a direct transcription. This ain’t SCOTUS). I was listening along and driving along and found myself blurting out “Bull****”. Not a direct quote, I didn’t say “bull asterisk asterisk asterisk asterisk”
How can that rumor still be around? Who on earth really thinks Guinness would really contaminate their beer as a legit method of dropping the pH a couple tenths? I once heard an interview with a Guinness brewer who wouldn’t outright deny it, but his response was something like “I heard we put a dead cow in the mash.”
What’s the immortal rumor that drives you nutz?
Ps, I still enjoy the show. I’m not suggesting a lynching
I’ve tried the separate mash, with lactic acid to get the ph down for the light colored mash, and added the cold brewed black sparging water made with roasted barley. This had chalk to avoid low ph. Happy with the result, smooth.
Next time I’ll try with sauergut instead of lactic acid.
Guinness put out a commemorative 250th anniversary book in which they themselves claimed they still vat a portion of the beer for FES (and FES only.) Maybe they do, maybe they don’t. All their beer was once a blend of stale and mild, but that’s a different process with a different purpose than the myth that will not die assumes.
There are so many myths that get my dander up I’ll have to think and narrow it down to the worst.
The recent flurry of articles about the GMO yeast making hop oils, one of them trotted out the long since busted “hoppy beers were invented to survive the trip to India” myth again… like the Guinness thing, while there is a slight grain of truth too it, hopped pale ales existed long before they sent anything to India, 90% of what got shipped over there was porter/stout and not pale ale because the normal soldiers (lower class) didn’t drink pale ales. Also, to continue to try to link 18th century pale ales with modern English pale ale and IPA, much less crazy American IPA is foolish.
It also drives me bonkers (as a food scientist) when anyone tries to claim anything in beer, whether it be GMO grain, GMO yeast, calcium carbonate, sugar, iron, mercury, BPA in cans, whatever is dangerous and is fill in the blank (killing you, stunting growth, causing weight gain etc). Alcohol is poisonous. No matter what is in beer… if you drink enough of it, the alcohol will kill you long before anything else.
I’m not in the camp that says that Guinness biologically sours wort and adds it to their product. All the evidence that I’ve gathered suggests that they take their rainwater-quality water supply and steep roast barley in that to create a liquid similar to Sinamar that happens to have a pH in the low 4 range. Some tasters might consider that acidic liquid to have a ‘sour’ note.
I made an interesting dry stout recently that was well received:
After making a standard dry stout all grain batch, I chilled the wort and ran off about 20-22 ounces into a half gallon glass jug, in which I pitched Omega’s All the Bretts and fermented it for about 10 days IIRC. The balance was fermented regularly with Irish Ale Yeast. When the regular batch was done fermenting, I racked the small batch into a large saucepan and heated the small batch to 170F. (Thinking it would kill off the Brett - and I assume that it did).
Then I racked both parts to the serving keg and chilled and carbed it.
The mixture had a slight funk and very light sour. I served it for a St. Paddy’s Day gathering and it went pretty quick once people got up the nerve to drink it. I don’t know that it replicated a Guinness from the 1800’s, but it was pretty tasty.
GMO stuff annoys me, but we probably shouldn’t crack open that can of worms.
Is one of the lambic myths that they’re made with real bits of lamb? Or is that not a lambmyth? Lambmyth is a trademark of Wilbur, any use without his permission is forbidden. Get ready for Lambmyth, the only beer make with real bits of lamb! Other brewers use artifical lamb, but Wilbur only uses organic, free range, non GMO heritage lambs for the most authentic experience!
I don’t remember which ones, but I feel like I hear some bad info thrown out at club meetings every once in a while. Never sure how to jump in without sounding like a jerk.
I think the “commercial practices don’t apply at our level” one is especially stubborn. It is true that many commercial practices can’t be DIRECTLY applied at our level, but dismissing those high level concepts outright has always seemed odd to me.
The truth of the matter is that all commercial concepts apply at the homebrew level as that is likely where we got them from. The fact that you may have to alter some of the process points to apply it is a bit implicit but there nonetheless. I’d say that we rarely drive innovation from our level to the commercial level with the same frequency as the commercial level has given us concepts and techniques.
I really hope you had a princess Bride reference going on.
BIAB is amazing, but doing it at a production level and be disastrous. However, pitching a vitality starter with 10% of the required yeast would probably disastrous. I’d love to hear what the thought behind this was but doing anything without a specific reason behind it is not great.
The point is that everything is relevant to us (substitute “isn’t relevant” for “doesn’t apply” in the “what’s commercial doesnt apply in homebrewing” retort) and all we need to do is modify to scale or modify for environment to apply it.
EVERYTHING is relevant to us while not everything DIRECTLY applies from large to small.
The stuff that isn’t relative to me is stuff like precisely hitting specs and consistently reproducing the same flavors. Or missing my ABV window. Or having to dump $2k of beer because of a contamination, or… not dumping it because the payroll is coming. But all of the process is either relevant or at least intetesting.
While I am not willing to dismiss any data/evidence/best practice from large-scale brewers out-of-hand, I am also not going to accept it completely without scrutiny/experimentation either. I think the majority of the goals of a large pro brewer are on par with what I desire in my own results, but it is up to me to determine what my own goals are and decide my own path to arrive at them after weighing all the data.
I will say this, I believe that closed-mindedness is detrimental to achieving success in any endeavor.
My own personal pet peeve is when I hear mention of the flash point of hop oils as if it has any relevance to brewing, or the thought that hop oils instantly “flash off” in boiling liquid. Flash point is a measure of flammability and vapor pressure of a pure liquid at a given temperature. It has no bearing whatsoever on oils that are dissolved at a low concentration in boiling water.
I’ve never seen a spontaneous flame appear above my boil kettle, and I am pretty sure I have had higher concentrations of hop oils in my brew kettle than most other brewers.