im 3 AG batches deep and my beers have been very watery unfortunately. The second one i mashed at 155 and i still got a FG of 1.007 (og 15 brix). I have been batch sparging w/o mashout. im wondering if not mashing out is the culprit as the grains temp lowers as i recirculate and sparge possibly converting the higher sugars and dextrins to light sugars while doing so. could this be the issue?
Maybe - we need more info, like recipes (lbs of grain at least) and OGs.
How long is the mash and is the temperature maintained throughout. If the mash temps are decreasing to 150ish for an extended period of time, that will increase the fermentability of the wort as well. As Tom said, need more info.
Red, I don’t think it works that way, as the beta amylase enzymes are denatured already from the higher temp mash in.
As you both said, need more recipe info.
My first thought was that your thermometer might be off. I used to use a probe-style oven thermometer and so did my friend (different brand). Neither was calibrated. One day we were brewing together and my thermometer was reading 10 degrees higher than his! That could put your mash in the 140s.
But as said, we really need more info. I batch sparge without a mashout though, so I can tell you that alone is not the problem.
Have you been hitting your target OG? How are you measuring your gravities - is your hydrometer accurate? If these are your first few AG batches, maybe you aren’t hitting your target efficiency. If you’re starting low, then that would explain why you’re finishing low.
Jeff. The beta amylase enzymes will not be comepletely denatured at 155F. They will work in tandem with alpha amylase to further break down starch molecules. "The optimal pH range for beta amylase between 5.4 and 5.6 and the optimal temperature range is between 140ºF (60ºC) and 150ºF (65ºC). Above 160ºF (70ºC) beta amylase is quickly deactivated [Narziss, 2005]. "
i don’t think the higher mash temps denature the enzymes immediately. And I don’t think mash out tmeps are really necessary in homebrewing, unless you are performing a 3 hour mash. The temp drop could be a problem, one easily rectifiable by adding a gallon or so or boiling water mid way through.
Interestingly enough, “thin beer” is a common complaint to those new to AG brewing. I wonder how often it is that they are used to heavy and underattenuated extract brewing. That said, 1.007 is pretty darn low. But are you sure you hydrometer is calibrated correctly? Are you sure your thermometers are calibrated correctly?
Like everybody else said, 155° shouldn’t really give you thin / watery beer. If you are attenuating down to 1007, you are probably mashing at perhaps very low gravities. 155° mash will create less fermentable sugars and more dextrins, etc. 1007 is super low for such a mash temp but this all depends on OG.
Like everybody else said, you are either mis-calculating the temp or mashing lower gravities than you think you are. Your mash efficiency might be the problem so many increase your grains to account for that if you truly believe your temps are correct…
Other than that, I’m not sure what else it could be. Recipes, pH, OG might give us a better understanding of the problem.
Interesting observation.
I agree with the others. Need more info on grain bill, etc. and double check your equipment.
Dave
my 3 grists have been (3 gal batches)
5lb belgian 2-row
1/2lb belgian biscuit
1/2lb belgian aromatic
1/4lb special b
mash =155
14 brix Og
Fg 1.007(there was 1/2lb of sugar but i still thought it should be higher than that)
5.7lb british 2-row malt
9.6oz c-60
2.4oz-chocolate
.9oz-black
mash = 151(90 min)
OG 1.071
FG 1.012(but seems very watery still)
im not going to bother on the 3rd recipe because it ended up a disaster to my fault not this issue and there no need to embarrass myself with posting it
i though about the thermometer calibration and im definitely gonna look into it.
i know my hydrometer is accurate, i always have 2 and they say the same gravity.
now i do have a 10gal rubbermaid cooler as my mash tun but ive been “preheating” it with so just about boiling water before i put the strike water in so the temps have been stable throughout the mash
I don’t really see anything wrong with your setup or your gravities.
There are ways to increase mouthfeel. Dextrin Malt, Crystal malt, Flaked barley, Oats, etc…
You’re getting about 83 - 87% attenuation. Your yeast seems to be eating through enough of your sugar to be giving a dry or light mouthfeel. Maybe try some not so high attenuating yeast…
You might be using too much refining agents that are dropping too much protein out of suspension…
There are all kinds of different factors.
Let me know if something or anything works for you.
Well when I batch sparge, it always RAISES the temp of the grain bed during this process. What is the temp of your sparge water? I would be inclined to agree with major and his theory.
Qiuckly looking at your recipe there is something wrong. An og of 1.071 for a 3 gallon batch with less than 7# of grain seems highly implausible if not impoossible.
+1 good catch!
Very good point - And I’ve been wondering lately how much of that is due to simultaneously adopting better yeast practices vs simply the switch to all grain.
i though so at first too but i made a post about it and everyone just said i had good efficiency, it was a kit and the expected OG was 1.056. it was a 90 minute mash though so that definitely drove my efficiency up
Assuming you have or get a good thermometer, make sure the mash is stirred well enough that the temperature is even. It is possible for it to be 155 on the top and cooler underneath or in different spots, especially if you’re adding the water on top of grain in the mash tun. I always measure a couple spots, stir, measure, stir more, measure again to make sure the temps agree.
yeah that seems suspicious to me.
say an average of 32 points per lb for the grain 7 lbs = 224 / 3gallons = 74.6 * say 85% efficiency = 63.
I guess 95% efficiency might get you close to 1.071 with 7 lbs of grain. which leads me to ask, how much are you sparging?
I find when I do a no sparge beer it has more body than if I do a single sparge or double sparge. Others may disagree.
Which thread was that?
EDIT: I found it…
http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=14284.msg181524#msg181524
In that particular recipe i sparged with 2.85 gallons. since then ive been using 4.75 gallons total with 1.25-1.5 quart per pound and the rest is reserved for sparging
after reading through that post again i may have had a small post boil gravity than 3, i know it didnt fill up as much as usual in my 3 gallon keg when i kegged that beer