For the Koln, I figure I will either make a starter (totally negating the purpose of buying dry yeast) or just try a “light Kolsch” at around 1.040 fermented in the low 60s.
For the others, I figure I can either build starters or blend them and brew an IPA with both “Hazy IPA” strains or I can brew a much smaller “starter beer” or something where I would be less upset by the likely underpitching-related flaws (like a brown ale or porter).
Or is this just a weird gimmick designed to get us to buy twice as much yeast?
Has anyone else brewed a >1.060 beer with one of these strains pitching a single sachet? It’s just weird that they would even sell it this way, TBH.
They don’t even mention starters as an option. They just recommend 2 packs for a moderate-gravity pitch. I realize many of the benefits of dry yeast are lost by making a starter, but if you’re operating with half as many cells (or less), then you have options to consider. For the Verdant IPA New England, they actually recommend 3 sachets for 20L of 1.060 beer.
Are you making 10 gal? When I poke a 5.5 gal batch of 1.060 beer using Verdent into their pitch rate calculator I get ~15 grams. That’s fairly routine across their Ale product line. I would weight out ~15 grams, vacuum seal the remaining yeast in the pack, and refrigerate it for use in the next brew.
They don’t even mention starters as an option. They just recommend 2 packs for a moderate-gravity pitch. I realize many of the benefits of dry yeast are lost by making a starter, but if you’re operating with half as many cells (or less), then you have options to consider. For the Verdant IPA New England, they actually recommend 3 sachets for 20L of 1.060 beer.
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It’s not just that benefits are lost…there could be detriments too.
Try the rest of their product line. New England and Koln come out differently. I didn’t realize Verdant IPA shows the same numbers as BRY-97 and Nottingham – had I spotted that, I probably would have kept Verdant IPA out of this post. I am comfortable, based on repeated personal experience, with pitching one pack of BRY-97 into 5.5 gallons of <1.065 beer. Usually if I am brewing something stronger than that, I will pitch two packs or just use some 2nd generation slurry. I know it takes twice as much for a lager, so I generally pitch 2 packs for a standard-strength lager. While I had hoped Koln would outperform K97, if it is half as many cells, I am probably more likely to stick with K97. I definitely balk at the idea that New England requires as much as 3 sachets for a 5 gallon batch of moderate-gravity wort. At that point it’s no longer convenient or cost-effective to use – I would rather just buy a pack of Imperial Barbarian. But since I already have a pack, I wonder what I ought to do with it. My thinking right now is using it for a dark mild and then pitching the 2nd generation into an IPA.
That is odd that those two ale strains’ pitching rate is 100g/hL to achieve a minimum of 1 million viable cells/mL. I’d shoot Lallemand a note and double check their logic. They may have a decent explanation. …but they may have just as likely made a mistake. [emoji2369]
You are right, the Verdant pitch rate seems to be similar to their other ale yeasts. Personally, I would be comfortable pitching 1 sachet in 5 gallons of 1.060 wort. That’s me, YMMV.
The Koln seems to be an outlier. 28.4 grams of dry yeast for the same 5 gallons of 1.060 wort, doesn’t pass the reasonability test, for their yeast. Agree with Denny, they may have a typo.
“Thanks for your question. Indeed, the pitching rates for the LalBrew New England and LalBrew Koln strains are higher. These are more sensitive strains and difficult to produce, and as such the viability of the dried yeast is lower. To achieve optimal fermentation performance, we recommend a higher pitching rate for these strains.”
So I think it really is just a low cell count per package. It seems like lots of brewers are likely to be confused and underpitch. I sent a follow-up email asking about making a starter.
“Absolutely, you could make a starter from dry yeast, no problems with that. There are advantages to using dry yeast directly (consistent pitch rates, no need to count cells, no need to aerate the wort) that will be lost if you propagate in a starter, but we do indeed have some customers who choose to propagate some of our lower viability strains.”
From my perspective, if these strains perform AS WELL as their liquid equivalents, then there is the benefit of easier shipping and storability, as well as the possible slight cost savings. As I have no true LHBS and summer weather here is very hot, it’s potentially worth it to keep a couple packs of these around – I’ll know for sure when I have brewed with them. I presume I can just make simple 2L SNS starters and pitch at high krausen like I do with liquid yeast.
I don’t have a local LHBS that stocks liquid yeast either. That’s why I went with dry yeast years ago. I often say I was shipped one too many liquid yeast packs that was DOA. Luckily, dry yeast has come a long way from the bad old days.
Much thanks to Skyler for starting this thread. This is valuable information, and a good lesson to learn (or re-learn) especially since yeast make beer.
I’ve never used either of these strains. Likely if so, since they are both ale yeasts, I would have blindly pitched one sachet, a significant underpitch. Likely enough to affect the beer. Lesson learned, especially when using an unfamiliar strain, spend more time on the Lallemand site, consult with their yeast calculator, and don’t be afraid to sent them a note with questions.
One might have assumed (me) that when using dry yeast from the same lab, the cell count in 11 grams = 11 grams regardless of strain. Wrong.
They packages do contain roughly the same cell count. Where they differ is in the number of cells that are viable. As I have always said, the only cell that matters is viable cell count. Dry brewer’s yeast is manufactured using the technology as active dry baker’s yeast. The difference is that purity is not as critical with baker’s yeast. Unlike liquid yeast where the propagation medium is produced, inoculated, and allowed to ferment out, dry yeast production is a continuous process with wort and O2 entering on one end and dry yeast coming out of the other end. Both yeast production in a bioreactor and yeast drying in a fluidized bed dryer operate in tandem on a continuous basis. It is quite hi-tech. The reality that some yeast strains survive the drying process better than others. If one performs a Google search using the search terms “fluidized bed drying yeast viability,” one will find many publications dedicated to the subject.