For this year’s Tennessee Brewfest, I’m planning on cloning all commercial beers. (10) At least one of the recipes I’m entertaining (Pliny) calls for mash hops. I’ve never used hops in the mash and was curious how this differs from First Wort Hopping?
Can it affect the pH level in the mash?
I tried mash hopping 3 times before deciding that it added nothing to the beer and was a waste of hops. I really don’t know about it affecting pH levels. My WAG would be not much if at all.
Denny . . as in nothing at all, or nothing over FWH?
Nothing…no detectable effects at all. I used them in 3 recipes I’d brewed often and was very familiar with and I couldn’t tell any difference from not using them.
'ppreciate it, Sir . .
In that recipe I use the Mash hops as FWH instead.
FWIW, I wouldn’t use any recipe for PTE but the one Vinnie gives out himself (http://www.beerdujour.com/Recipes/1Pliny%20the%20Elder%20clone%20PDF.pdf)
No Randall, no MASH hops and no stinking FWH either!!! 
;D
I see your West Coast tendencies at work. ;D
;D
Thanks for the link. I like simplifying! 
Vinnie had given out a recipe for Pliny the Elder 4 or so years ago.
The one on Fred’s site is the new one published this summer in Zymurgy. No mash hops, no FWH, no Chinook, etc. That is on my list of ones to make. The old recipe was very good. Oh, and Vinnie said on Brew Strong that there is some Amarillo in Pliny now (he didn’t say when or how much).
As a side story, I brewed the old recipe when it was given out. Entered it in the Michigan state fair, as a DIPA. The judges knocked it for being “too hoppy for style”. They were not BJCP, to make that clear, but still… ???.
I’ve entered the Old Recipe for Pliny in 2 different BJCP sanctioned events. It was a little past it’s prime, maybe 5 or so months old (that fresh hop aroma almost changes by the day for a couple of weeks) but still took silver in both.
And where can one find the old recipe?
I think Vinnie was talking about it in his firs appearance at BN Sunday session.
That one linked on Fred’s site, AFAIK, is the original Pliny homebrew recipe. I seem to remember them discussing that the recipe was ‘out there’ on that first Sunday Session, but for some reason not actually giving the recipe on the show. It’s been so long, I’d have to listen to it again to be sure.
Vinnie did mention Amarillo in the current rendition, as well as hop extract for the early bittering. I think the hop extract is critical if you want to make a clone of the current commercial version. I brewed one using the original recipe and it seemed far more bitter than the commercial version I had. Still a fine beer mind you, but it was more like the longshot DIPA than Pliny. Not quite as harsh as the longshot beer, but not as mellow as the Pliny. The aroma was absolutely incredible though, it’s like I took 20 lbs of citrus zest and threw it in the fermenter.
Hmmm . .the longer this thread goes on, the more it seems to be going in ill-defined directions! 
So Fred’s is the original, or the most current?
Hop extract?? . . as in a substitution for FWHing?
C’mon boys, let’s nail this down!
The recipe on Fred’s site is the new one that was in Zymurgy this summer. Fred got that one from Vinnie after the 2009 NHC. No Chinook and more Simcoe. No mash hops in the new one
85.7 24.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) America 1.036 2
1.8 0.50 lbs. Crystal 40L America 1.034 40
5.4 1.50 lbs. CaraPilsner France 1.035 10
7.1 2.00 lbs. Corn Sugar Generic 1.046 0
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops
3.00 oz. Chinook Whole 13.00 36.8 Mash H
1.00 oz. Columbus Whole 15.00 20.2 90 min.
5.00 oz. warrior Whole 15.00 101.0 90 min.
2.00 oz. Simcoe Whole 13.00 30.1 45 min.
2.00 oz. Columbus Whole 15.00 29.0 30 min.
4.00 oz. Centennial Whole 10.50 0.0 0 min.
2.50 oz. Simcoe Whole 13.00 0.0 0 min.
6.50 oz. Columbus Whole 15.00 0.0 Dry Hop
3.50 oz. Centennial Whole 10.50 0.0 Dry Hop
4.00 oz. Simcoe Whole 13.00 0.0 Dry Hop
WYeast 1056 Amercan Ale/Chico
That’s the same recipe I’ve always used, except I brew it so that there is 5 gallons of actual beer going into the carboy. I have also always done the mash hops as FWH because I was never really sure what adding hops to the mash would do.
The recipe itself is also much more heavily dry-hopped, I want to say that I was adding between 5.5 ot 7oz of hops to a 5 gallon batch. Um Ummmmmm.
Thanks for clearing this up, it’s hard to sift through all the information out there unless you were around when it came out.