My first all grain IPA was awesome but I’m looking for a little more mouth feel. I use Brew Smith 2 and had used the Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge profile. This called for a step temp of 148 degrees for 60 minutes. I think I can accomplish a tad more mouthfeel by changing the profile to a Single Infusion, Full Body, Batch Sparge. This calls for a step temp of 156 degrees for 45 minutes. I understand the higher temp for this profile but I’m confused about less mash time. Can someone explain this to me. I haven’t found anything online that can explain this. Thanks!
Beersmith medium body is more like 154F. The light body is around 150F for 75 minutes.
I’d mash an IPA around 150-152. You want a good fermentable wort so it finishes dry to let the hops shine. Well, that’s what I want…you maybe want something different.
A) 148F mash temp typically results in a thinner body. I use 153 for most normal brews, and 160-162 for a fuller body
B) The conversion reactions happen more rapidly at higher temperatures. That’s probably where the different amount of time comes from. Frankly, most brewers I know use a standard mash time for almost all their beers and simply adjust the mash temp. The only exception (for me, at least) is low-temperature mashes (in the 145-148 temperature range). I’ll usually mash about 30 minutes longer since the reactions run a little slower and I want to get full conversion in those brews.
+1 to all of the above. Hotter = faster = more unfermentable sugars = greater body.
You can safely pick one favorite mash time and temperature and use it for 90% of your beers. I mash 90% of mine at 148-150 F for 45 minutes. Occasionally I’ll mash a little longer if I want it super dry. Otherwise, that’s what I like. You might prefer 155 F.
In any case, I will always argue that 45 minutes is good enough. Or even 40. No need to mash any longer than that unless you want the beer super dry.
On your system, and at the temperatures you use that may be good enough. Personally, my efficiencies jumped considerably, and became much more consistant, when I went to a 75-minute mash. FWIW, this is for no-sparge/BIAB at 153F.
I recently listened to an interview with Flat Tail (a sour brewery in Corvallis). He brought up some interesting points from their experience. Early on they were trying hard to leave starch behind. He said that they even tried lautering as soon as they mashed in and it didn’t work. He said today’s malts have so much DP that its pretty tough to not convert. But he also said that with modern malts there is little difference in mash temps unless you’re talking a big temp change. In other words if you want a noticeable change in body or fermentability you need a big change in temp. Like the difference between 145 and 148 isnt much. But the difference between 145 and 155 probably will be noticed.
Remember the bubble chart Denny posted a while back. They overlap. The enzymes are thick in modern malts, and they are not digital. Meaning that its not as if alpha gets turned on at 150 and beta gets turned off.
I tend to agree with what the Flat Tail brewer was saying because I dont notice much difference beteeen a modern malt beer that is mashed at 155 vs 150. I notice differences between one mashed at 150 and one at 145, and its not a huge glaring difference.
Thanks for sharing. That makes sense with the highly modified malts of today. Now if we could only decide if decoction really makes a difference or not…
No kidding. I’m not totally certain, but I was listening to a Gordon Strong interview from back when his book was coming out. According to him, and caviating that I was multi tasking at the time so dont quote me here, but he said that the same thing applies. I gathered that if you are going to do decoction use lower DP malts like continental pils. He also said he likes to to a 130 rest for 15 minutes with those to help with clarity and I think he said it brings out a little more malt aroma. I won’t be doing decoction, but this winter I might try the 130 step to see what it gets me in a germy pils or helles etc.
I agree it takes several degrees in mash temp to get a real noticeable change. Except for (to me) the difference you see going sub-150F. Going from say 151 - 155F I see little difference, but going from 151F down to 147F I see a much more noticeable difference in body.
Huh, well maybe I’ll try a rest at 130 as well. The book on Helles by Horst Dornbusch suggests you can’t call it a true helles if you don’t do a protein rest…well, whatevs, dude. Guess I better try it, see how I like it.
I never differentiated “conversion efficiency” from “X Y Z” other type of efficiency. I use the more “pragmatic” and less scientific “brewhouse efficiency” that gets spat out by my homebrewing software. When I see my brewhouse efficiency is in the 90s, then I don’t care why. In fact, I’m also the guy who OPENED the gap on my grain mill because I was worried that too high efficiency might be watering down the malt flavors in my beer – the theory goes that I didn’t need to use as much malt as other people, so this is why my malty beer were getting dinged in competition for “needs more maltiness” compared to others. So now I shoot for mid-80s brewhouse efficiency, and I’ve been happy there ever since. I really don’t care about maximizing efficiency, as long as my beer tastes as good as possible. I am also considering experimenting a lot more with no-sparge beers to maximize malt flavors. Efficiency in the 60s is not bad at all, and might even be desirable, to me at least. More experiments are needed.
I never differentiated “conversion efficiency” from “X Y Z” other type of efficiency. I use the more “pragmatic” and less scientific “brewhouse efficiency” that gets spat out by my homebrewing software. When I see my brewhouse efficiency is in the 90s, then I don’t care why. In fact, I’m also the guy who OPENED the gap on my grain mill because I was worried that too high efficiency might be watering down the malt flavors in my beer – the theory goes that I didn’t need to use as much malt as other people, so this is why my malty beer were getting dinged in competition for “needs more maltiness” compared to others. So now I shoot for mid-80s brewhouse efficiency, and I’ve been happy there ever since. I really don’t care about maximizing efficiency, as long as my beer tastes as good as possible. I am also considering experimenting a lot more with no-sparge beers to maximize malt flavors. Efficiency in the 60s is not bad at all, and might even be desirable, to me at least. More experiments are needed.
Coincidentally, my last brew day was an APA with a pound of quick oats. I was worried about getting a stuck mash so I opened my gap a bunch. Didn’t measure, just eyeballed it. Husks were all in tact and the crush was maybe 6-8 bits per kernel with very little powder. Mashed at 145 for 90 and my brew house efficiency went from 73% to 80%. Im leaving the rollers where they are I think. I’d rather not pulverize my husks and just mash a bit longer.
I have no idea how this plays into the discussion, just rambling I guess.
Using conversion efficiency, I can see which part of my mash efficiency may have problems. Using mash efficiency, I can find out why my brewhouse efficiency is what it is. To me, they all tie together and I need to know all of them to get a complete picture.
I found that with longer mash times at sub 147F temps, my lagers (BoPils, Helles, etc…) were just too dry and a bit watery (very low final gravities). I upped the temperature to 150F+ to start and cut off the mash at 90 minutes max, sometimes only 60-75 minutes, and they had much better body and the dryness was reduced substantially.
I have the Horst Dornbusch book on Helles, as well as the History of German Brewing, but I think some of his information is based on malts from a while back - these newer malts don’t seem to need a protein rest IMHO. Even so, he wrote the book and his position is not irrelevant to the discussion. Again, try it and see what works for you. I have found that short mashes have been pretty sufficient from a flavor and attenuation perspective. I have given up on decoction as a pretty much “time and effort not worth the result” decision, unless I have a lot of extra time and want to experiment - like in the middle of winter…
+1 on all counts. I don’t do a protein rest and pretty much wrote decoction mashes off as diminishing returns after a few very long brew days that didn’t seem to have much added impact on final beer quality.
Mash temps are all well and good to follow, but if you repeating a beer recipe you should also be looking at what your final gravities are telling you. For example, if you mash your IPA at 150F and the beer dries out to a 1.008 then you might want to consider mashing closer to 155F (providing your yeast pitching rate and oxygen are all the same) to increase your final gravity to 1.013-1.014 or so. I have never given much credence into what OG’s and FG’s the classic brewing software predicts. Likewise with choosing a mash regimen in this fashion as well. Just my 2 cents, which doesn’t get me much nowadays…