# No lager activity **URL:** \ **Category:** Ingredients\ **Created:** [January 15, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413 "2013-01-15T00:55:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bigd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/bigd/32/4351_2.png) [@bigd](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bigd)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/1 "2013-01-15T00:55:59Z")
It’s been 72 hours and no bubbling or krausen yet.  It’s a 1.04 light lager based on the recipe in Brewing Classic Styles.  I pitched the recommend 3 Wyeast packages at 44 degrees, and slowly brought the temp up to 50, where it is now.  NO activity at all.  The smack packs did not swell very much initially.  I wonder if the yeast were inactive.  The package said Sep of 2012, so they had been stored in a cold fridge for 4 months.  Any help?  Not sure what to do… ---
**Author:** ![a10t2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/a10t2/32/6257_2.png) [@a10t2](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/a10t2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:21am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/2 "2013-01-15T01:21:37Z")
Did you aerate/oxygenate? It sounds like you did everything else right, so all you can do is wait it out. ---
**Author:** ![bigd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/bigd/32/4351_2.png) [@bigd](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bigd)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:33am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/3 "2013-01-15T01:33:56Z")
> [@a10t2](#): > > Did you aerate/oxygenate? It sounds like you did everything else right, so all you can do is wait it out. I aerated with an aquarium pump for about 30minutes. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 12:27pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/4 "2013-01-15T12:27:04Z")
I think you forgot to switch from ale to lager in Mr Malty and looked at the “# of packs needed with starter” line.  It’s 5 packs if you switch it to lager and 14.8 packs if you look at “# of packs needed without starter”. I think at this point you just need to wait out the lag phase for another day or two and then lager it for a while… Dave ---
**Author:** ![stevo155](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@stevo155](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/stevo155)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:35pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/5 "2013-01-15T13:35:31Z")
I agree with Dave on waiting.  Even with a starter, it takes a couple days for krausen on mine to show.  Only problem is that it is going to be severely underpitched. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 1:49pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/6 "2013-01-15T13:49:15Z")
> [@](#): > > I agree with Dave on waiting.  Even with a starter, it takes a couple days for krausen on mine to show.  Only problem is that it is going to be severely underpitched. DarkSide reminded me that I would definitely perform a diacetyl rest for 2-3 days at 68F when the beer gets a few points above FG and then lager on the cake for at least 4 weeks to allow the yeast to finish cleaning up the beer. Dave ---
**Author:** ![a10t2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/a10t2/32/6257_2.png) [@a10t2](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/a10t2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/7 "2013-01-15T15:30:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Only problem is that it is going to be severely underpitched. I don’t see how. At four months old, the smack packs were probably 80-90% viable. 3 \* 80 billion / (19 L \* 10°P) = 1.3 million/mL-°P. ---
**Author:** ![stevo155](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@stevo155](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/stevo155)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/8 "2013-01-15T15:50:56Z")
> [@a10t2](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Only problem is that it is going to be severely underpitched. > > I don’t see how. At four months old, the smack packs were probably 80-90% viable. 3 \* 80 billion / (19 L \* 10°P) = 1.3 million/mL-°P. I’m not sure I can agree with the 80-90% viability after 4 months since they leave the plant at 95%, even though Wyeast guarantees it for 6 months.  And not knowing how it was handled getting to the store and into their fridge, as well as the package not swelling too much.  I think Mr. Malty putting it at 10% is a little extreme however. ---
**Author:** ![a10t2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/a10t2/32/6257_2.png) [@a10t2](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/a10t2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/9 "2013-01-15T16:16:33Z")
Yeah, the MrMalty/YeastCalc viability estimates are reasonable (though still low, IME) for stored slurry, but for a sealed, refrigerated, smack pack they’re just ludicrous. Notice that it never drops _below_ 10% either; a 4-year old pack/vial has the same viability as a 4-month old. At any rate, even if you call it 65 billion cells per pack (10% loss/month) that’s still over 1 million/mL-°P, which is fine for a low-gravity lager IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/10 "2013-01-15T16:28:24Z")
a10, I thought it was you that told me in another thread that yeast loses viability at 20%/month?  That would make it an underpitch, however not a dramatic underpitch.  But it would lend to no activity in 3 days starting at 48F. Dave ---
**Author:** ![a10t2](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/a10t2/32/6257_2.png) [@a10t2](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/a10t2)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/11 "2013-01-15T16:36:54Z")
My rule of thumb is 25%/month, but that’s for slurry that’s been harvested from a fermenter and stored under beer. Even then it’s a little conservative. For yeast that hasn’t undergone any fermentation, and has been stored in a low-alcohol, inert gas-flushed package, I think even 10%/month is probably conservative. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/12 "2013-01-15T16:43:57Z")
> [@a10t2](#): > > My rule of thumb is 25%/month, but that’s for slurry that’s been harvested from a fermenter and stored under beer. Even then it’s a little conservative. For yeast that hasn’t undergone any fermentation, and has been stored in a low-alcohol, inert gas-flushed package, I think even 10%/month is probably conservative. Ah, I think it was for slurry.  That makes sense… Dave ---
**Author:** ![bigd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/bigd/32/4351_2.png) [@bigd](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bigd)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/13 "2013-01-15T18:19:48Z")
> [@davidgzach](#): > > I think you forgot to switch from ale to lager in Mr Malty and looked at the “# of packs needed with starter” line.  It’s 5 packs if you switch it to lager and 14.8 packs if you look at “# of packs needed without starter”. > > I think at this point you just need to wait out the lag phase for another day or two and then lager it for a while… > > Dave I figured I’d wait at least another week or two before lagering.  I’m afraid if I drop the temp down into the thirties, there will be even less yeast activity.  I’ll probably get a hydrometer reading in a few days as well. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/14 "2013-01-15T18:23:19Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@davidgzach](#): > > > > I think you forgot to switch from ale to lager in Mr Malty and looked at the “# of packs needed with starter” line.  It’s 5 packs if you switch it to lager and 14.8 packs if you look at “# of packs needed without starter”. > > > > I think at this point you just need to wait out the lag phase for another day or two and then lager it for a while… > > > > Dave > > I figured I’d wait at least another week or two before lagering.  I’m afraid if I drop the temp down into the thirties, there will be even less yeast activity.  I’ll probably get a hydrometer reading in a few days as well. I was not clear in that post.  Let it ferment to a point or two above FG, bring it up to 65F for 3 days for a diacetyl rest and then gradually bring it down to 34-38F and lager. Dave ---
**Author:** ![bluesman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@bluesman](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bluesman)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/15 "2013-01-15T19:43:34Z")
Take a hydrometer reading now and report back. Did the yeast packs swell at all? In the future, I recommend making a starter as a general rule, because that should ensure a healthy and viable pitch of yeast cells. An adequate amount of viable yeast is key to a healthy fermentation and a quality beer. Keep us posted.  🙂 ---
**Author:** ![weithman5](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/weithman5/32/9958_2.png) [@weithman5](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/weithman5)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 9:05pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/16 "2013-01-15T21:05:45Z")
just wait. i brew lagers mostly.  ive used single packs and starters. fundamentally i get very little krausen and nor do i see any significant activity in my air lock.  what you will see a few weeks out is the settling of the yeast on the bottom of your fermentor.  this is less obvious if you allowed the cold break to form in the fermentor but otherwise it is easily noticable. ---
**Author:** ![bigd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/bigd/32/4351_2.png) [@bigd](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bigd)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/17 "2013-01-15T23:28:44Z")
> [@bluesman](#): > > Take a hydrometer reading now and report back. Did the yeast packs swell at all? In the future, I recommend making a starter as a general rule, because that should ensure a healthy and viable pitch of yeast cells. An adequate amount of viable yeast is key to a healthy fermentation and a quality beer. > > Keep us posted.  🙂 1.040 Gravity reading today, which is approximately 96 hours from initially pitching the yeast.  I was hoping to be suprised…unfortunately not the case. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/18 "2013-01-15T23:33:47Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@bluesman](#): > > > > Take a hydrometer reading now and report back. Did the yeast packs swell at all? In the future, I recommend making a starter as a general rule, because that should ensure a healthy and viable pitch of yeast cells. An adequate amount of viable yeast is key to a healthy fermentation and a quality beer. > > > > Keep us posted.  🙂 > > 1.040 Gravity reading today, which is approximately 96 hours from initially pitching the yeast.  I was hoping to be suprised…unfortunately not the case. I’d bring it up to 52-53 and give it another day or two.  Do you have the means to make a starter? Dave ---
**Author:** ![bigd](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/bigd/32/4351_2.png) [@bigd](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bigd)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 11:47pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/19 "2013-01-15T23:47:21Z")
> [@davidgzach](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@bluesman](#): > > > > > > Take a hydrometer reading now and report back. Did the yeast packs swell at all? In the future, I recommend making a starter as a general rule, because that should ensure a healthy and viable pitch of yeast cells. An adequate amount of viable yeast is key to a healthy fermentation and a quality beer. > > > > > > Keep us posted.  🙂 > > > > 1.040 Gravity reading today, which is approximately 96 hours from initially pitching the yeast.  I was hoping to be suprised…unfortunately not the case. > > I’d bring it up to 52-53 and give it another day or two.  Do you have the means to make a starter? > > Dave Should I swirl the beer up at all?  I’ll increase the temp a few degrees. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2013, 11:55pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413/20 "2013-01-15T23:55:28Z")
What type of yeast?  I would bring it up as high as the recommended temp says for the strain and give it a good swirl when it gets there. At 6 days you may have to cut your losses.  However, the yeasties could be fighting hard to replicate and get fermenting! They are hearty suckers… Dave [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/no-lager-activity/12413.md?page=2)