# Overshot Mash PH **URL:** \ **Category:** Brewing Processes\ **Created:** [January 19, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456 "2013-01-19T18:09:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/1 "2013-01-19T18:09:37Z")
I was trying to hit 5.2 and used a little too much acid malt and hit 5.1.  What are the effects? Dave ---
**Author:** ![hopfenundmalz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hopfenundmalz/32/11193_2.png) [@hopfenundmalz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hopfenundmalz)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:14pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/2 "2013-01-19T18:14:33Z")
Not much, the worst that could happen is that the beer might be slightly sharp in taste, I don’t think it will end up tart. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/3 "2013-01-19T18:23:24Z")
> [@hopfenundmalz](#): > > Not much, the worst that could happen is that the beer might be slightly sharp in taste, I don’t think it will end up tart. Could that be a good thing for a Bohemian Pilsner? Dave ---
**Author:** ![nateo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/nateo/32/1090_2.png) [@nateo](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/nateo)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/4 "2013-01-19T18:27:42Z")
5.1 is fine. I remember Kai saying something about how a higher mash pH can create a lower kettle pH. So the relationship between beer pH and mash pH isn’t as intuitive as you might think. ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/5 "2013-01-19T19:12:28Z")
I wouldn’t be as worried about the pH as about the effects of 5.2 on the beer flavor. ---
**Author:** ![hoser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/90ced4/32.png) [@hoser](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hoser)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/6 "2013-01-19T19:29:17Z")
> [@denny](#): > > I wouldn’t be as worried about the pH as about the effects of 5.2 on the beer flavor. Denny, I thinking he was targeting a mash pH of 5.2, not using 5.2? Correct, David?  I think at 5.1 you’ll be fine.  The enzymes may have to work a little harder for a little longer, but shouldn’t be of concern.  If unsure, do a starch conversion test.  Plus, there is always a +/- on accuracy of pH meters, so you may be closer to 5.2 than 5.1? Conversely, you could be lower than 5.1 as well. :P.  Once, you sparge the pH of your wort and beer will be fine.  I have overshot an occasion more than once, but just dial back a little on acidifing the sparge water.  Beer was fine in the end.  RDWHAHB! ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/7 "2013-01-19T19:41:21Z")
> [@hoser](#): > > > [@denny](#): > > > > I wouldn’t be as worried about the pH as about the effects of 5.2 on the beer flavor. > > Denny, I thinking he was targeting a mash pH of 5.2, not using 5.2? Correct, David?  I think at 5.1 you’ll be fine.  The enzymes may have to work a little harder for a little longer, but shouldn’t be of concern.  If unsure, do a starch conversion test.  Plus, there is always a +/- on accuracy of pH meters, so you may be closer to 5.2 than 5.1? Conversely, you could be lower than 5.1 as well. :P.  Once, you sparge the pH of your wort and beer will be fine.  I have overshot an occasion more than once, but just dial back a little on acidifing the sparge water.  Beer was fine in the end.  RDWHAHB! Hoser, that is correct.  I’m using acid malt, not 5.2 Stabilizer.  I don’t use that stuff. I actually did not acidify the sparge water so I think I’m good. Thanks! Dave ---
**Author:** ![mabrungard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mabrungard/32/12430_2.png) [@mabrungard](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mabrungard)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/8 "2013-01-19T20:36:19Z")
Was that a room temp pH measurement?  5.2 is already on the low side if it was.  5.1 is more so.  The body might be decreased a bit since the wort fermentability will be higher.  It might be a little more tart, but if the sparging water was not acidified, maybe the kettle wort pH won’t be that low. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/9 "2013-01-19T20:46:52Z")
Hey Martin!  It was 5.1 at room temp.  Bru’n water told me to use much more Acid Malt than I was accustomed-1.8# to get to 5.2. Dave ---
**Author:** ![mabrungard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mabrungard/32/12430_2.png) [@mabrungard](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mabrungard)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/10 "2013-01-20T13:16:35Z")
> [@davidgzach](#): > > Hey Martin!  It was 5.1 at room temp.  Bru’n water told me to use much more Acid Malt than I was accustomed-1.8# to get to 5.2. > > Dave That is a problem with acid malt, it can be variable.  That is why I don’t recommend it.  I’m more comfortable using lactic with a known strength. I welcome reports from any brewers about their results using  the amount of acid malt recommended by Bru’n Water and the resulting mash pH.  The acidity contribution that I’ve used in Bru’n Water was based on Weyermann’s rule of thumb with 0.1 pH drop per percent of grist.  It could easily be off since I don’t use that stuff and I haven’t heard from anyone that does.  My ears are open! ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 1:48pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/11 "2013-01-20T13:48:44Z")
> [@mabrungard](#): > > > [@davidgzach](#): > > > > Hey Martin!  It was 5.1 at room temp.  Bru’n water told me to use much more Acid Malt than I was accustomed-1.8# to get to 5.2. > > > > Dave > > That is a problem with acid malt, it can be variable.  That is why I don’t recommend it.  I’m more comfortable using lactic with a known strength. > > I welcome reports from any brewers about their results using  the amount of acid malt recommended by Bru’n Water and the resulting mash pH.  The acidity contribution that I’ve used in Bru’n Water was based on Weyermann’s rule of thumb with 0.1 pH drop per percent of grist.  It could easily be off since I don’t use that stuff and I haven’t heard from anyone that does.  My ears are open! Martin, It was only off .1 and that is well within the margin of error for the PH tester.  I just wanted to let you know that the spreasheet asked for a lot of acid malt versus what I have used in the past.  I’m using it for all my brews now and it’s a great tool.  Thanks again for putting it together! Maybe it’s time to just buy some lactic acid and take the guess work out of the equation like you said.  I’ve had good results from acid malt but why bother when I can be more precise? Dave ---
**Author:** ![pawtucket\_patriot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/pawtucket_patriot/32/8024_2.png) [@pawtucket\_patriot](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/pawtucket_patriot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 2:18pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/12 "2013-01-20T14:18:49Z")
FWIW, I use Bru’n Water and I also use acid malt for any situation where I need to lower mash pH.  When I plug in my grist in Bru’n Water, I simply omit the acid malt.  Then, I just add acid malt to lower the pH to my desired target.  I use the Weyermann rule of thumb that Martin mentioned, and I’ve never had an issue.  For example, yesterday I brewed a pilsner for which Bru’n Water projected a mash pH of 5.7.  I added 3.2% acid malt to the grist and my mash pH was between 5.3-5.4, which was my target. ---
**Author:** ![mabrungard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mabrungard/32/12430_2.png) [@mabrungard](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mabrungard)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/13 "2013-01-20T19:16:30Z")
Matt, What does Bru’n Water tell you if you input that acid malt into the grain bill.  Does the estimated mash pH and the observed pH agree?  That is useful information for my calibration use. ---
**Author:** ![pawtucket\_patriot](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/pawtucket_patriot/32/8024_2.png) [@pawtucket\_patriot](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/pawtucket_patriot)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 10:07pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/14 "2013-01-20T22:07:56Z")
> [@mabrungard](#): > > Matt, What does Bru’n Water tell you if you input that acid malt into the grain bill.  Does the estimated mash pH and the observed pH agree?  That is useful information for my calibration use. I get 5.2 on Bru’n Water when I input the acid malt.  So, it’s approximately .1 pH lower than my actual reading.  But, I will qualify this by openly admitting that I am measuring pH at room temperature with ColorpHast strips.  I always add .3 pH to whatever I get on the strip. ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/15 "2013-01-20T22:24:39Z")
Martin, When I put in 8oz of acid malt for a 10G batch of Pilsner, Bru’n water showed a PH of 5.4.  It didn’t go to 5.2 until I hit 1.6#.  I ended up putting in 1.8 since that is all I had. The PH came in at 5.1 at room temp.  I have a Hanna PH meter. Dave ---
**Author:** ![beersk](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/beersk/32/13414_2.png) [@beersk](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/beersk)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 3:07pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/16 "2013-01-22T15:07:30Z")
This is good info to have since I am an acid malt user. Thanks, guys! ---
**Author:** ![kaiser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/kaiser/32/7315_2.png) [@kaiser](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/kaiser)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/17 "2013-01-22T16:40:16Z")
David, Do you mind sharing the grist and water info. I’d like to run it through the model I have. Kai ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/18 "2013-01-22T17:50:42Z")
Calcium-32, Magnesium-9.6, Sodium-19, Sulfate-41, Chloride-39, Bicarbonate-24 (although not listed on the report and filled in by Bru’n Water).  Alkalinity-51 and Hardness 118. For some reason, my Bru’n water spreadsheet had some different numbers.  When I plugged these in and checked the Mash PH again, it was at 5.1…go figure!  :o I just ordered a new report and will adjust all my spreadsheets accordingly.  My local Ace hardware store graciously ordered in some Pickling Lime for me so I’ll be good to go from here.  Hopefully… Dave ---
**Author:** ![kaiser](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/kaiser/32/7315_2.png) [@kaiser](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/kaiser)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 5:56pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/19 "2013-01-22T17:56:04Z")
Thanks. What was the grain bill and either the mash thickness or sparge water and grist weight. Kai ---
**Author:** ![davidgzach](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/davidgzach/32/21101_2.png) [@davidgzach](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/davidgzach)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2013, 6:07pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456/20 "2013-01-22T18:07:58Z")
> [@kaiser](#): > > Thanks. What was the grain bill and either the mash thickness or sparge water and grist weight. > > Kai 17# Pilsen, 2# Light Munich, 1.8# Acid Malt, 1# CaraPils.  Mashed with 6.8g to get to 153F. Dave [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/overshot-mash-ph/12456.md?page=2)