# PBW Alternative? **URL:** \ **Category:** General Homebrew Discussion\ **Created:** [September 22, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108 "2015-09-22T23:59:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrodyR](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brodyr/32/8016_2.png) [@BrodyR](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/BrodyR)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2015, 11:59pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/1 "2015-09-22T23:59:50Z")
I’ve been pretty happy with using PBW except for the cost. I’ve heard oxyclean mentioned before as a cheap, effective alternative but never used it - any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![skatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/skatz/32/6982_2.png) [@skatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/skatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:14am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/2 "2015-09-23T00:14:08Z")
I have been using oxiclean exclusively for 10 years. I have bought the fragrance free type in the past, but these days I opt for the 14lb box at Costco and just rinse a bit better.  I use a full scoop in 4-5 gallons for cleaning and a half scoop for soaking fermenters. One scoop is about 4 scoops of PBW. PBW is nice, just very expensive. ---
**Author:** ![blatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@blatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/blatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:49am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/3 "2015-09-23T01:49:13Z")
I don’t know why but PBW just seems to work a leeettlle better than oxyclean. Denny has been using those tabs but I can’t remember the name and he seems to like them.  I’ll give them a whirl but I buy PBW in the big tubs and have a lot of inventory. ---
**Author:** ![skatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/skatz/32/6982_2.png) [@skatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/skatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:56am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/4 "2015-09-23T01:56:21Z")
This is the company that Denny uses. They have powder and tabs. [www.craftmeister.com](http://www.craftmeister.com) ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/1X/f1a2211dcb353b921ed70873794a31db2031eccc.png) [@system](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:17am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/5 "2015-09-23T02:17:21Z")
I just buy pbw in the big tubs but the conventional wisdom is that oxyclean + tsp substitute is pretty close. > **[Super-charge your Oxiclean – Bertus Brewery](https://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/11/super-charge-your-oxiclean.html)** ---
**Author:** ![blatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@blatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/blatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/6 "2015-09-23T02:53:20Z")
> [@narvin](#): > > I just buy pbw in the big tubs but the conventional wisdom is that oxyclean + tsp substitute is pretty close. > > [Super-charge your Oxiclean – Bertus Brewery](http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/11/super-charge-your-oxiclean.html) Used that for years.  Occasionally would have a scaling problem on long soaks, which was taken care of by a strong star San soak afterward, but it was annoying ---
**Author:** ![skatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/skatz/32/6982_2.png) [@skatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/skatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:35am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/7 "2015-09-23T04:35:08Z")
I find the trick to avoiding the scaling is to use hot or hotter water when rinsing. Star San does the trick as well. ---
**Author:** ![stevo155](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@stevo155](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/stevo155)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:25pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/8 "2015-09-23T12:25:47Z")
> [@blatz](#): > > > [@narvin](#): > > > > I just buy pbw in the big tubs but the conventional wisdom is that oxyclean + tsp substitute is pretty close. > > > > [Super-charge your Oxiclean – Bertus Brewery](http://www.bertusbrewery.com/2012/11/super-charge-your-oxiclean.html) > > Used that for years.  Occasionally would have a scaling problem on long soaks, which was taken care of by a strong star San soak afterward, but it was annoying The Five Star guys have been in the Brewing Network in the past and said the difference between PBW and Oxiclean is that PBW has a chelating agent which prevents scaling. That said, I’ve been using Oxiclean for years and never had any issues with getting stuff clean.  Sometimes a better bottle needs a little bit of a soak. ---
**Author:** ![mabrungard](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/mabrungard/32/12430_2.png) [@mabrungard](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/mabrungard)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 12:46pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/9 "2015-09-23T12:46:55Z")
A chelating agent is only necessary if you are using hard water to create your solution. If you use softened water or RO water, the benefit of the chelating agent is moot.  Maybe this is why some Oxiclean users report no problems. ---
**Author:** ![blatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4da419/32.png) [@blatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/blatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:30pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/10 "2015-09-23T13:30:06Z")
didn’t mean to start a sidebar conversation here, but the only times i’ve had scaling issues with the oxy/tsp mix is for excessive soaking (i.e. when I soak a keg, but don’t get to rinse it for several days).  i never have this same issue with PBW on long soaks. I use my tap water for cleaners - its soft. ---
**Author:** ![tesguino](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/tesguino/32/8962_2.png) [@tesguino](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/tesguino)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:35pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/11 "2015-09-23T13:35:40Z")
> [@](#): > > I have bought the fragrance free type in the past, but these days I opt for the 14lb box at Costco and just rinse a bit better. My theory is that it’s like propane gas. The fragrance is good. You know you’ve done a thorough rinse when the odor is gone. ---
**Author:** ![realbeerguy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/realbeerguy/32/8843_2.png) [@realbeerguy](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/realbeerguy)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 1:55pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/12 "2015-09-23T13:55:26Z")
For the amount we use as homebrewers, the additional cost is moot to use the proper product.  Why reinvent the wheel? ---
**Author:** ![tappr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3ab097/32.png) [@tappr](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/tappr)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:03pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/13 "2015-09-23T14:03:26Z")
I use Walmart’s Sun Clean.  I don’t know if it is a match for Oxiclean, but it sure seems to work just fine on everything and cheaper than Oxiclean.  I’m using hot softened water. ---
**Author:** ![skatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/skatz/32/6982_2.png) [@skatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/skatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 2:41pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/14 "2015-09-23T14:41:38Z")
> [@realbeerguy](#): > > For the amount we use as homebrewers, the additional cost is moot to use the proper product.  Why reinvent the wheel? The savings is greater than any loss in efficacy IMO. I buy oxyclean at less than $1/lb. PBW is barely less than $3/lb if buying buy the 50lb bucket and closer to $8/lb in the smaller amounts. ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:16pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/15 "2015-09-23T16:16:52Z")
> [@](#): > > This is the company that Denny uses. They have powder and tabs. [www.craftmeister.com](http://www.craftmeister.com) Yep.  Better than Oxi or PBW.  Drew did a test…[Craftmeister Cleaners – The Picturing – Carboy Test | Experimental Brewing](http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/drew/craftmeister-cleaners-picturing-carboy-test) One thing we found is that the Crafmeister cleaners dissolve better than either Oxi or PBW.  Turns out that Oxi and PBW  source their percarbonate from the laundry industry and it has a coating that doesn’t full dissolve until 140F.  Craftmeister uses percarbonate made for the chemical industry and it dissolves at 110F.  Don’t get me wrong…both Oxi and PBW work well.  But Craftmeister works better. ---
**Author:** ![skatz](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/skatz/32/6982_2.png) [@skatz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/skatz)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/16 "2015-09-23T16:24:33Z")
Good to know Denny. I don’t have trouble getting oxiclean to dissolve, but my SOP is to fill a bucket about half way before adding the cleaner and stir the heck out of it. ---
**Author:** ![GCBrewery](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/gcbrewery/32/6585_2.png) [@GCBrewery](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/GCBrewery)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 4:30pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/17 "2015-09-23T16:30:07Z")
> [@mabrungard](#): > > A chelating agent is only necessary if you are using hard water to create your solution. If you use softened water or RO water, the benefit of the chelating agent is moot.  Maybe this is why some Oxiclean users report no problems. This is how I know I need to add salt to my softener. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/18 "2015-09-23T17:06:49Z")
> [@](#): > > Good to know Denny. I don’t have trouble getting oxiclean to dissolve, but my SOP is to fill a bucket about half way before adding the cleaner and stir the heck out of it. It’s not just the dissolving…it actually cleans better. ---
**Author:** ![ynotbrusum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/ynotbrusum/32/10316_2.png) [@ynotbrusum](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/ynotbrusum)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 7:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/19 "2015-09-23T19:12:54Z")
> [@denny](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > This is the company that Denny uses. They have powder and tabs. [www.craftmeister.com](http://www.craftmeister.com) > > Yep.  Better than Oxi or PBW.  Drew did a test…[Craftmeister Cleaners – The Picturing – Carboy Test | Experimental Brewing](http://www.experimentalbrew.com/blogs/drew/craftmeister-cleaners-picturing-carboy-test) > > One thing we found is that the Crafmeister cleaners dissolve better than either Oxi or PBW.  Turns out that Oxi and PBW  source their percarbonate from the laundry industry and it has a coating that doesn’t full dissolve until 140F.  Craftmeister uses percarbonate made for the chemical industry and it dissolves at 110F.  Don’t get me wrong…both Oxi and PBW work well.  But Craftmeister works better. Good test and interesting results, but they all did well on an overnight soak, so I would say that the Craftmeister Alkaline was worked quicker, rather than better… But I suppose it’s all semantics.  I have the tablets to try out next…got them free for judging a couple weeks back.  For what it is worth, I rinse well and clear all crud with just water and a cloth or no scratch scrubbie pad before cleaning carboys, buckets and kegs (usually PBW, but sometimes another cleanser.)  That way I can reuse the PBW solution many times - I just leave it in my homemade keg and carboy washer with a tight lid and it keeps for weeks.  I heard a rumor that PBW is used by Ruth’s Crist Steakhouse chains to clean the seared on steak grease from the cast iron plates their steaks are served on.  If so, it must continue working through many cycles.  So, I would be interested to hear if Drew tried these products out on his “assembly line cleaning operation”? ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2015, 7:17pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108/20 "2015-09-23T19:17:58Z")
FWIW, I had a very grungy keg after using it to both brew and ferment batches from the Zymatic.  PBW didn’t touch it.  Craftmeister alkaline, in cold water, made it look like new. [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pbw-alternative/21108.md?page=2)