# PNW American Sour **URL:** \ **Category:** Beer Recipes\ **Created:** [September 5, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567 "2014-09-05T19:07:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/1 "2014-09-05T19:07:07Z")
Just started the boil. I’m shooting for something similarish to a Berliner Weiss but ale, and bit more color, and PNW character. 6# GW Munich 10L 5# GW Washington Select Mashed at 145° No bittering hops 2oz Willamette at 10 min I did a 2L starter of lacto, ran it for a week. Decant and pitch at 85°. Run that for a week then chill to 65° and pitch a starter of 1332 NW Ale. I’m looking forward to the results. ---
**Author:** ![redbeerman](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/redbeerman/32/10016_2.png) [@redbeerman](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/redbeerman)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:17pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/2 "2014-09-05T19:17:03Z")
Be patient Jim.  You will start noticing the aroma first, but it takes a while (3 months minimum in my experience) before you will detect any real tartness in the beer.  Good Luck! ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/3 "2014-09-05T19:19:04Z")
Cool. I guess in the new Bjcp guidelines this would be a 28B. ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/4 "2014-09-05T19:21:08Z")
> [@redbeerman](#): > > Be patient Jim.  You will start noticing the aroma first, but it takes a while (3 months minimum in my experience) before you will detect any real tartness in the beer.  Good Luck! I might bottle condition this one. Maybe if it’s any good I’ll enter it next spring. ---
**Author:** ![kylekohlmorgen](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/kylekohlmorgen/32/7926_2.png) [@kylekohlmorgen](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/kylekohlmorgen)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/5 "2014-09-05T19:38:56Z")
> [@klickitat\_jim](#): > > Cool. I guess in the new Bjcp guidelines this would be a 28B. Cascadian Sour Ale?  :🙂 > [@redbeerman](#): > > Be patient Jim.  You will start noticing the aroma first, but it takes a while (3 months minimum in my experience) before you will detect any real tartness in the beer.  Good Luck! Pitching a healthy amount of Wyeast 5335 without yeast, I’ve gotten berliner-levels of acidity in 10 days or so. It can also take several weeks/months. Depends on hop charge, starter size/health and temperature. Jim’s got the right idea w/ a decent starter and keepin’ her warm. I would think 2 oz of hops would really slow lacto down, though. If you want hop character, dry hop. You could start a bit higher (100F) because the temp will fall off little by little. Tasting should tell you when its ready to cool/pitch yeast. ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/6 "2014-09-05T19:50:26Z")
> [@kylekohlmorgen](#): > > > [@klickitat\_jim](#): > > > > Cool. I guess in the new Bjcp guidelines this would be a 28B. > > Cascadian Sour Ale?  :🙂 > > > [@redbeerman](#): > > > > Be patient Jim.  You will start noticing the aroma first, but it takes a while (3 months minimum in my experience) before you will detect any real tartness in the beer.  Good Luck! > > Pitching a healthy amount of Wyeast 5335 without yeast, I’ve gotten berliner-levels of acidity in 10 days or so. It can also take several weeks/months. Depends on hop charge, starter size/health and temperature. Jim’s got the right idea w/ a decent starter and keepin’ her warm. I would think 2 oz of hops would really slow lacto down, though. If you want hop character, dry hop. > > You could start a bit higher (100F) because the temp will fall off little by little. Tasting should tell you when its ready to cool/pitch yeast. I have a dual stage freezer which is at 85° right now with only 60° outdoor temps. So it should stay at 85° for the full seven days. I’ll have about 10 IBU. I was hoping that wouldn’t inhibit too much ---
**Author:** ![reverseapachemaster](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/reverseapachemaster/32/19_2.png) [@reverseapachemaster](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/reverseapachemaster)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 4:46pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/7 "2014-09-07T16:46:41Z")
Don’t be afraid to push that warmer. I would target 100-110F. ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/8 "2014-09-07T17:22:46Z")
Ive been keeping an eye on it. Its holding 85 in the day time, drops a couple by early morning,  so looks like im at my limit. Maybe an extra heat pad dropped in would help. Ill go do that. Thanks for giving me the idea! ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/9 "2014-09-07T17:28:39Z")
Done. I set the controller for 95 and tossed in a second heat pad that will just run all the time. I’ll check it when I get home from work a 10pm and see where its at. ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2014, 11:50pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/10 "2014-09-07T23:50:54Z")
Stopped by to check. The beer is up to 85 now. So I dialed my cold side up to 100 to keep the freezer from defeating my extra efforts. And I left the hot side at 95 . Oooh this should be a dandy ---
**Author:** ![troybinso](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/troybinso/32/4150_2.png) [@troybinso](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/troybinso)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:08pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/11 "2014-09-08T15:08:58Z")
Yeah, I would expect the lacto to start working immediately at that temperature and get some souring within a week. Did you pitch the yeast at the same time? ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 3:53pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/12 "2014-09-08T15:53:15Z")
> [@troybinso](#): > > Yeah, I would expect the lacto to start working immediately at that temperature and get some souring within a week. Did you pitch the yeast at the same time? Nope, I did a 2L starter for the lacto for a week. Decant and pitch. I’ll be doing a starter for my 1332 and probably pitch that sunday. ---
**Author:** ![troybinso](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/troybinso/32/4150_2.png) [@troybinso](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/troybinso)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:12pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/13 "2014-09-08T16:12:33Z")
Which version of lacto did you use? I used the wyeast special release 5223 and it doesn’t require any yeast. ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/14 "2014-09-08T16:19:28Z")
I used 5335. Just checked my freezer controller and the extra heat pad did the trick. The beer is at 94º at 9am, so yee haw ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 4:44pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/15 "2014-09-15T16:44:19Z")
Pitched my 1332 yesterday. It had been at 95º for 8 days then chilled to 65. I oxygenated because I figured with that heat it would have zero O2. Checked it this morning and looks like some krausen but no airlock activity yet. I guess my theme for this week is patience ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/16 "2014-09-16T16:53:27Z")
Has anyone else tried this method? To recap its 1.050 OG 50/50 munich and 2row mashed low and long. I pitched lacto wy5335 with temp control at 95º. Looking at the calendar it sat like that for 8 days, then a day cooling to 65º, then I pitched a decanted 2L starter of wy1332 NW Ale and oxygenated. Other than the O2 bubbles I don’t think it ever formed a krausen. The ale yeast has been in there for only 2 days. I just checked and its at 1.012. I bumped the temp up to 68. So is this normal behavior for this kind of fermentation process? No krausen but numbers showing its working? Its only been 11 days and I plan to let her go and run its course. The hydro sample tested at or below 4ph, the lowest color for my colophast strips. Taste was like a 1.012 FG with med light lactic sourness. Am I tracking right? Or should I be seeing something else? Its weird because my last 1332 had huge blowoff and this one just sat there. ---
**Author:** ![troybinso](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/troybinso/32/4150_2.png) [@troybinso](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/troybinso)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/17 "2014-09-16T17:30:49Z")
Sounds about right to me. You put the yeast into an environment that was alcoholic, lacking sugars, and low pH. The yeast doesn’t have much left to do at this point, and may not add much of any fermentation at all. Did you check the gravity before you pitched the yeast? It might have been done fermenting already after 8 days. ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/18 "2014-09-16T17:44:30Z")
> [@troybinso](#): > > Sounds about right to me. > > You put the yeast into an environment that was alcoholic, lacking sugars, and low pH. The yeast doesn’t have much left to do at this point, and may not add much of any fermentation at all. > > Did you check the gravity before you pitched the yeast? It might have been done fermenting already after 8 days. Sadly no, I did not. The sample had some tiny bubbles as if it were still working and was moderately turbid, so im assuming the yeast is still in suspension. I watched that YouTube of the guy from wyeast who did the berliner weiss presentation. Pretty much followed that plan but different grain bill and he used lager yeast instead of ale. But he never mentioned how long it took to finish or how low it went, that I remember. I’ll just let it ride and see what happens ---
**Author:** ![klickitat\_jim](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/klickitat_jim/32/6601_2.png) [@klickitat\_jim](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/klickitat_jim)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/19 "2014-09-16T17:45:40Z")
> [@troybinso](#): > > Sounds about right to me. > > You put the yeast into an environment that was alcoholic, lacking sugars, and low pH. The yeast doesn’t have much left to do at this point, and may not add much of any fermentation at all. > > Did you check the gravity before you pitched the yeast? It might have been done fermenting already after 8 days. Does 5335 produce alcohol? ---
**Author:** ![troybinso](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/troybinso/32/4150_2.png) [@troybinso](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/troybinso)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2014, 5:53pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567/20 "2014-09-16T17:53:28Z")
I am pretty sure it does. There are claims that the strain only produces lactic acid, but I have used it in the past and there was definitely some alcohol present. [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/pnw-american-sour/17567.md?page=2)