1) Have any of you guys ever caught someone entering a commercial beer into a Home Brew competition?
2) How do you think some of the commercial beers (say Fuller’s ESB, Pliny the Elder, Young’s Chocolate Stout…) would fare in a large competition?
- No
- Many would do poorly. Commercial beers often push style boundaries or don’t worry about style at all.
+1
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I have never heard of someone doing that.
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Many times the commercial beers have been mishandled in transit or are just simply old.
Earlier this year, I taught the exam class again. I couldn’t believe how much of a diacetyl bomb Pilsner Urquell has become. I know if I was judging that category and a beer came through with that much diacetyl, it would get docked pretty badly for such excessive levels. I understand that this is THE original beer for the style. But in years past, there was SOME LIGHT diacetyl in it. These were borderline undrinkable, straight out of the (ironically) “throwback” can.
Had 6 pack in the bottles a few months back and was thinking the exact same thing. I just don’t think I will even ever buy it again.
I had a bad batch of PU last year. I complained to the distributor. They sent me a check (quickly).
I think it has to do with the Czech lager strains - they can be clean on day one and re-establish diacetyl to detectable levels after a fe more weeks…
Noticed the same thing happen at my tasting exam. A study friend and I both lost points because we docked score for the diacetyl. The Master judge concurred with our assessment, yet did not score it for having excessive diacetyl for the style specifically because it was PU.
They are allowed knowledge of the beers? Strange
Sorry, should have said that in the post exam discussions the judge indicated that they could tell that it was PU. Interestingly, my friend and I both indicated that we also though it was PU… that had been spiked.
ugh. Reminds me of the BOS event a year ago where one of the BOS panel was absolutely convinced the winning beer was his and thus he shouldn’t have been there. It wasn’t his.
Never assume you know what the beer is. I don’t care what your ranking is.
This is no BS…I was on my 2nd 4 pack of PU cans when I asked the questions…I thought it tasted a bit like Heineken…but I would not know if that is normal…It is the first PU I’ve tried and I was trying to like it…it is pretty and I did propagate some yeast from one of the cans…
I have always wanted to do something like that. Not to win a comp but rather to “prove” how subjective comps and scoring really are. With a label on the bottle it is world class…without a label it is “ok”. Just shows our unconscious bias…
We conduct 2-3 informal non-sanctioned competitions per year within our local homebrewing club (the Manty Malters of Manitowoc, WI), using BJCP guidelines as rough guidance but like I say, not officially sanctioned. We’ve done style-based comps for various styles including IPA, ESB, Cream Ale, Barleywine, etc. I have been the Competition Director for about 6 years. As such, whenever we are focusing on a particular style, to satisfy my own curiosity if nothing else, I have always anonymously entered an additional esteemed commercial example of the same style just to see how it fares against our homebrews. Surprisingly (to me anyway), our homebrews always score better than the commercial example. Usually the commercial beer is NOT in the Top 3. At best I think maybe the commercial has won 3rd place once or twice. My theory is that the commercial examples which are likely about 6 months old in the bottles on average just can’t seem to hold up to fresher homebrewed examples, which are usually but not always only like a month or two old. I have been surprised time and time again that people favor homebrews to BJCP-cited commercial examples. But, no matter how many times I put them up against us, our homebrews ALWAYS win! I never cease to be amazed by this as I know I’m choosing great commercial examples.
Wow! That is awesome. I always wondered how they would pair up against our brews from home. Interesting to hear. Maybe next time you could try to get some super fresh examples for comparison just to see what happens.
Yeah, that’s pretty cool to hear. Aside from the obvious age of the commercial stuff in relation to the homebrew, commercial brewers aren’t as restrained by styles as we are in comps. They might be excellent beers in many cases but not fit a given style as accurately as a homebrewed version. Doesn’t mean that I don’t think that homebrewed beers can be better on their own merits, because they totally can IMO.
This conversation reminds me why I’m not a big fan of competitions. Logistically I get why competitions are setup this way. I just have a hard time accepting that the better tasting beer would lose because one of it’s characteristics doesn’t quite match the style guide.
Then again I do see the value that feedback on individual characteristics and consistent judging can provide to our ability to learn how to manipulate our process and recipe’s to achieve a desired result.
I thought competitions sounded kinda dumb, too, but then I entered one, didn’t agree with one judge’s assessment and decided to be a judge. Now I see that the style guidelines are necessary to attempt to set an objectively determined criteria to what is inherently subjective. I have given beers a score that indicates that the beer is not adhering to technical style requirements, but then let the brewer know that it may be a perfectly fine beer, otherwise. I even go out on a limb to compliment the brewer, if it is particularly good, despite style issues. This goes back to the commercial brewers, who are freer in their categorization of beers and allow substantial stylistic drift.
Now when I enter a competition, I know that order of the flight, handling of the beer, pouring of the beer and even lighting conditions of the competition may have impacted any one score and I am convinced more than ever that packaging the bottle for a competition may be a huge difference between a beer that comes out of the gate well and one that appears lacking at first glance. For this reason, I try to give a beer a healthy chance and always go back to it before finalizing my bottom line number.
In the end, the competition should be fun for the entrant and a worthwhile experience for the judge. Be civil and honest and find something to encourage the brewer, if the beer falls short. New brewers appreciate the feedback and may improve their brewing more quickly as a result of good feedback; old pros know not to enter a beer unless it is pretty darn good and they do everything they can to make sure it will hold up through the process to get to the judge’s glass in the best shape it can be.
Look at the commercial calibration reviews in Zymurgy, those beers are 38 +/- a few points. Good Homebrew scan be in the 40s. Freshness counts in many styles.
I remember judging American Barleywines once in a flight that the organizer had sneaked in a two-year old Bigfoot. I think I commented that it needed some age to blend the flavors, or that it seemed too rough. We had three better homebrews in the flight. I hate it when they do that, though. It’s like they’re trying to trick you. Judging is hard enough without somebody trying to catch you making a mistake.
Lately around here the commercial brewers are only one step away from being homebrewers. I have twice (or more) the experience of some of the new start-up pros.
I have been to other types of competitions besides BJCP. Where I used to live there was an annual people’s choice competition. Styles were not considered. All attendees at a party simply voted for their favorite beer (they had a favorite label contest also).
My club in the same town also did an Iron Brewer contest where brewers had to use 3 specified ingredients (1 malt, hop, yeast). Brewers could add other ingredients and brew anything. That one was judged by an 3 judge panel just for best taste. Those were fun when the ingredients weren’t too crazy.