# Questions after first all grain **URL:** \ **Category:** Brewing Processes\ **Created:** [May 6, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962 "2010-05-06T01:02:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![johnny\_b](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/johnny_b/32/8094_2.png) [@johnny\_b](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/johnny_b)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:02am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/1 "2010-05-06T01:02:15Z")
Hello all, First off, all in all I think it went well, just have some questions about the numbers. I am using Beersmith and the estimated boil volume was 7 gal, with the amount of water suggested, I collected 7.25 gal. This seems to be an easy adjustment in the equipment settings for next time. The estimate for OG was 1.049 and I achieved 1.045 going in to the fermenter. This worked out to 62% efficiency according to Beersmith. I mashed at 154F with a ratio of 1.25 qt/lb for 60 min. (grain bill was 10 lbs for 5 gal batch) My mash tun is a 48 qt ice cube using a copper manifold with 4 main rails that are roughly equally spaced. There are slots cut at about 1/2" intervals in the copper tube. I stirred the mash at mash in, mash out, and after adding the final sparge water. Before running off, I allowed the mash to sit for 10 min each time. I did not take any pH readings and used the same filtered tap water that I have always used for extract. Does my efficiency seem out of line? Can it be improved by some obvious means that I may not know of? Maybe a more vigorous or frequent stir? Thanks in advance, Steve ---
**Author:** ![dhacker](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/dhacker/32/12401_2.png) [@dhacker](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/dhacker)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:10am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/2 "2010-05-06T01:10:36Z")
First question . . did you have exactly 5 gallons going into the fermenter, or more like 5.5? (or even more) ---
**Author:** ![johnny\_b](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/johnny_b/32/8094_2.png) [@johnny\_b](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/johnny_b)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:31am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/3 "2010-05-06T01:31:48Z")
I had 5 gallons in the fermenter. At the end of 60 min boil I had about 5.75 gal, I boiled about 15 min. longer to get to 5.5 gal on my sight glass. ---
**Author:** ![tygo](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/tygo/32/2134_2.png) [@tygo](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/tygo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/4 "2010-05-06T01:33:08Z")
What was your recipe? ---
**Author:** ![johnny\_b](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/johnny_b/32/8094_2.png) [@johnny\_b](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/johnny_b)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/5 "2010-05-06T01:36:17Z")
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - [http://www.beersmith.com](http://www.beersmith.com) Recipe: Midwest Sierra Pale Ale Brewer: Captain & Crew Brewery Asst Brewer: Style: American Pale Ale TYPE: All Grain Taste: (35.0) ## Recipe Specifications Batch Size: 5.00 gal       Boil Size: 6.66 gal Estimated OG: 1.049 SG Estimated Color: 5.0 SRM Estimated IBU: 61.0 IBU Brewhouse Efficiency: 68.00 % Boil Time: 60 Minutes ## Ingredients: Amount        Item                                      Type         % or IBU       9 lbs         Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)            Grain        90.00 %       8.0 oz        Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM)              Grain        5.00 %         8.0 oz        Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM)     Grain        5.00 %         2.00 oz       Pearle [7.70 %]  (60 min)                 Hops         58.7 IBU       1.00 oz       Cascade [7.20 %]  (2 min)                 Hops         2.3 IBU       1.00 items    Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min)          Misc                                         1 Pkgs        American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) [Starter Yeast-Ale ## Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 10.00 lb Single Infusion, Medium Body Step Time     Name               Description                         Step Temp     60 min        Mash In            Add 12.50 qt of water at 168.0 F    154.0 F       10 min        Mash Out           Add 7.00 qt of water at 197.7 F     168.0 F the boil volume was originally estimated at 7.0, I have already updated my equipment setting in Beersmith. ---
**Author:** ![weithman5](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/weithman5/32/9958_2.png) [@weithman5](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/weithman5)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/6 "2010-05-06T01:46:48Z")
efficiency smischiency.  let me know how it tastes. that said. probably reasonable job. ---
**Author:** ![hokerer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hokerer/32/266_2.png) [@hokerer](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hokerer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/7 "2010-05-06T02:02:03Z")
> [@johnny\_b](#): > > Does my efficiency seem out of line? Doesn’t seem particularly out of line.  Seems like the biggest contributor to efficiency is your crush.  Did you crush your own grain?  have the LHBS do it?  LHBS seem to crush with a generally larger gap than most people crush at home.  They’re more concerned with you not having a stuck mash than they are with your getting max efficiency. ---
**Author:** ![theprofessor](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/theprofessor/32/11214_2.png) [@theprofessor](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/theprofessor)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:24pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/8 "2010-05-06T16:24:47Z")
> [@weithman5](#): > > efficiency smischiency.  let me know how it tastes. > that said. probably reasonable job. +1 exactly…that’s the main issue. As you dial in your methods & procedures by brewing more, you’ll get a better idea of what your own brewhouse efficiency is and you’ll be able to formulate beers and achieve desired gravities just by eyeballing it.  A gravity reading before the boil helps to determine if the boil needs to be slightly longer or shorter (based on the initial volume and your evaporation rate)…it just takes a couple of batches to get a feel for that. The software solutions can be helpful at times, but I think the mistake a lot of brewers make is to take the data output by the programs (or a printed recipe for that matter) as some kind of definitive goal.  Besides, missing target numbers generated by a piece of software (which can only calculate based on educated guesses as to interpreting the data you input)  doesn’t constitute failure or a lesser brew.  The bottom line is ALWAYS “how does it drink”. A  few gravity points are not all that significant anyway, really.  Such variations occur in commercial brewery operations of every size, every day, ---
**Author:** ![weithman5](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/weithman5/32/9958_2.png) [@weithman5](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/weithman5)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/9 "2010-05-06T16:35:57Z")
wow. my first +1  woot woot. ---
**Author:** ![euge](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/euge/32/5060_2.png) [@euge](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/euge)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/10 "2010-05-06T16:46:41Z")
What was your method? Fly sparging? Batch? I think 62% isn’t too bad. If the beer tastes good, and it probably will- don’t worry you on track. Chasing that elusive “higher efficiency” is the road to madness. Aim for consistency. Congratulations on the first all-grain experience! ---
**Author:** ![bbump22](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/bbump22/32/492_2.png) [@bbump22](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bbump22)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/11 "2010-05-06T18:26:25Z")
> [@hokerer](#): > > > [@johnny\_b](#): > > > > Does my efficiency seem out of line? > > Doesn’t seem particularly out of line.  Seems like the biggest contributor to efficiency is your crush.  Did you crush your own grain?  have the LHBS do it?  LHBS seem to crush with a generally larger gap than most people crush at home.  They’re more concerned with you not having a stuck mash than they are with your getting max efficiency. I batch sparge and hit between 66%-68% pretty consistently.  I believe that the crush is the most important…depending on your water source, the pH may play a role.  I also hear that fly sparging can bump up your efficiency rates too…i track the efficiency so I can use it as a basis when creating recipes, but I don’t use it as a tool to measure my success as a brewer.  I use the final product to measure the success rate. Cheers and welcome to AG!  My first couple of AG recipes are kegged and bottled - ready for tasting this weekend - im stoked! ---
**Author:** ![hokerer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/hokerer/32/266_2.png) [@hokerer](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/hokerer)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/12 "2010-05-06T19:06:34Z")
> [@bbump22](#): > > i track the efficiency so I can use it as a basis when creating recipes, but I don’t use it as a tool to measure my success as a brewer +1 Well said.  The goal of figuring out efficiency issues should be consistency in the percentage and not necessarily getting the maximum.  Once you consistently know your efficiency, your recipes will start turning out as you predict. ---
**Author:** ![fritzeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/898d66/32.png) [@fritzeye](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/fritzeye)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:01pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/13 "2010-05-06T20:01:06Z")
Great job. From what I understand any efficiency in that range yields the the meat and potatoes part of the grain.  I batch sparge as per Denny and one thing I did notice is that when I slowed down my run off to about 15 minutes from 5 minutes, my efficiency got 5-10 points higher. ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 8:51pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/14 "2010-05-06T20:51:45Z")
> [@fritzeye](#): > > Great job. From what I understand any efficiency in that range yields the the meat and potatoes part of the grain.  I batch sparge as per Denny and one thing I did notice is that when I slowed down my run off to about 15 minutes from 5 minutes, my efficiency got 5-10 points higher. Boy, that’s interesting!  I’ve tried all different speeds without any difference.  I wonder why it’s different for us? ---
**Author:** ![bbump22](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/bbump22/32/492_2.png) [@bbump22](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/bbump22)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/15 "2010-05-06T21:02:42Z")
> [@denny](#): > > > [@fritzeye](#): > > > > Great job. From what I understand any efficiency in that range yields the the meat and potatoes part of the grain.  I batch sparge as per Denny and one thing I did notice is that when I slowed down my run off to about 15 minutes from 5 minutes, my efficiency got 5-10 points higher. > > Boy, that’s interesting!  I’ve tried all different speeds without any difference.  I wonder why it’s different for us? I’ve used Denny’s method of Batch Sparging too and always just open the valve all the way once it has started flowing and I know I shouldn’t get a stuck sparge.  One question I have always had is should I continue to tilt the MT when the flow is down to a slow trickle so that I can get all of the final drips out or am I just waisting my time with that since it doesn’t bring my volume up by much? ---
**Author:** ![johnny\_b](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/johnny_b/32/8094_2.png) [@johnny\_b](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/johnny_b)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:22pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/16 "2010-05-06T21:22:52Z")
Hey, thank to all for the replies. I too determine success on the taste, I just want to evaluate my process and know what I get to plan later recipes. That said, I did not crush my own grain and I batch sparged. I just opened the valve wide for each runoff. I really enjoyed doing this for the first time, it was no big deal at all. If I had started with AG, it may have been a little overwhelming, but after doing extract for a while it’s no big deal. I did learn that if you intend on doing AG and are going to stick with 5 gal batches that you by no means need a pump and a cooler mash tun when loaded with grain and strike water is definitely light enough to lift above your boil kettle for running off. I also learned that I should have listened to everyone that says that the 23 jet NG burners are overkill. Anyone considering these to use with keggles, do yourself a favor and GET THE 10 JET BURNER. I am happy to have made the leap and look forward to tasting the difference of AG. I actually brewed the same recipe extract and AG to compare side by side (the wife is out of town and I wanted to do an exbeeriment). ---
**Author:** ![richardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@richardt](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/richardt)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/17 "2010-05-06T21:31:56Z")
One question I have always had is should I continue to tilt the MT when the flow is down to a slow trickle so that I can get all of the final drips out or am I just waisting my time with that since it doesn’t bring my volume up by much? [/quote] Yes, you should.  I do it because of my frugal nature.  “Waste not, want not.”   It may not be efficient in terms of time spent, though.   I haven’t done the math to determine how much fermentable sugar is in one or two gallons of 1.016 last runnings (if fly sparging) or in one or two gallons of 1.024 last runnings (if batch sparging). I typically brew 10 gallon batches. I mash and batch/fly sparge with the same 10 Gallon [orange ;)] Igloo cooler. I usually do 2 or 3 batch sparges to get a lot of volume quickly into the boil kettle, and then do a fly sparge with the remaining sparge water while the kettle is bringing the wort to a boil.  I only mildly rake the upper 1/2 of the grain bed with my stirring spoon when fly sparging to avoid having to vorlauf again. I always take the extra time to tip and drain the fluid (takes as long as 10-15 minutes.  It’s amazing how much the grain bed compacts and shrinks as the final runnings are pulled off.  We’re talking a good gallon or two of wort.  I always make sure it remains above 1.008-1.016 (brix 2-4, if using the refractometer), in order to avoid astringency issues. ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/18 "2010-05-07T15:14:15Z")
> [@bbump22](#): > > One question I have always had is should I continue to tilt the MT when the flow is down to a slow trickle so that I can get all of the final drips out or am I just waisting my time with that since it doesn’t bring my volume up by much? Either way…for years, I didn’t bother to tilt.  These days, I usually do, even though it usually only yields an extra cup or 2.  For me, it’s easy enough to do that I just go for it. ---
**Author:** ![edward](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/90db22/32.png) [@edward](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/edward)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 4:27pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/19 "2010-05-07T16:27:23Z")
I usually sparge about a gallon more than what is recommended.  My runoff gravity never goes below the astringency zone and it helps me to pick up a few gravity points.  Checking the runoff gravity is a good way to find out if you can sparge a little more or not.  Off course you will have to boil that much longer to get down to your target volume. If I am brewing to style and my gravity is too high at the end I usually add water to get the gravity into spec. ---
**Author:** ![euge](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/euge/32/5060_2.png) [@euge](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/euge)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962/20 "2010-05-07T17:07:32Z")
As far as tilting goes I usually place a piece of 1 x 2 under the far end of the tun before doughing in. Not really necessary with the Coleman xtreme but out of habit it still gets done… [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/questions-after-first-all-grain/1962.md?page=2)