# Seeking wisdom. Banana and Clove flavor in your Hefeweizen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Brewing Processes\ **Created:** [April 19, 2020, 6:11am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810 "2020-04-19T06:11:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![nikegonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/67e7ee/32.png) [@nikegonz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/nikegonz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 6:11am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/1 "2020-04-19T06:11:32Z")
Big fan of the Hefeweizen. I had one a few years ago while stationed in upstate New York and I could really taste the bananas and clove. My goal is to recreate something similar. Thoughts on what/when to add the necessary ingredients during the process? To give an idea of what I’m working with, I recently purchased an all-grain homebrew Hefeweizen recipe from my local homebrew store consisting of German Pilsen and Red Wheat. I’m using Hallertauer Mittelfruher hops from Yakima Chief and SafAle US-05 yeast. I’d greatly appreciate any advice. ---
**Author:** ![ynotbrusum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/ynotbrusum/32/10316_2.png) [@ynotbrusum](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/ynotbrusum)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 10:50am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/2 "2020-04-19T10:50:26Z")
It’s about the yeast and process, really.  US-05 doesn’t create the phenols (clove) and esters typical of a Hefeweizen - look to White Labs WLP 300 or Omega Labs OYL-21.  As to process, these yeasts are more banana when fermented on the warm end and more clove on the low end of the suggested temperature range.  Under pitching is practiced by some, also, to slightly stress the yeast.  Further a ferrulic acid rest added on the mash steps will assist with meeting your desired flavor profile.  Last - drink this beer fresh. Cheers. ---
**Author:** ![KellerBrauer](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/kellerbrauer/32/1322_2.png) [@KellerBrauer](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/KellerBrauer)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/3 "2020-04-19T11:49:09Z")
Ynotbrusum explained it perfectly.  The only point I would add is: don’t be discouraged if the end result is not exactly what you were looking for.  In my experience, a good Hefe is not easy to accomplish especially if you don’t possess the means to accurately control fermentation temperatures.  I attempted 4 Hefe recipes that were not successful until I got better control of my fermentation. Good Luck! ---
**Author:** ![BrewBama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewbama/32/21184_2.png) [@BrewBama](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/BrewBama)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 12:09pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/4 "2020-04-19T12:09:52Z")
I’d simply add if you are limited to dry yeast Munich Classic might be an option for you. ![0e890fcd74e3095277b725af64a41a3e.jpg](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/2X/8/809b2005bc9e832645acbb361c41153d77c2420a.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![nikegonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/67e7ee/32.png) [@nikegonz](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/nikegonz)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/5 "2020-04-19T15:35:09Z")
> [@ynotbrusum](#): > > It’s about the yeast and process, really.  US-05 doesn’t create the phenols (clove) and esters typical of a Hefeweizen - look to White Labs WLP 300 or Omega Labs OYL-21.  As to process, these yeasts are more banana when fermented on the warm end and more clove on the low end of the suggested temperature range.  Under pitching is practiced by some, also, to slightly stress the yeast.  Further a ferrulic acid rest added on the mash steps will assist with meeting your desired flavor profile.  Last - drink this beer fresh. > > Cheers. > [@KellerBrauer](#): > > Ynotbrusum explained it perfectly.  The only point I would add is: don’t be discouraged if the end result is not exactly what you were looking for.  In my experience, a good Hefe is not easy to accomplish especially if you don’t possess the means to accurately control fermentation temperatures.  I attempted 4 Hefe recipes that were not successful until I got better control of my fermentation. > > Good Luck! > [@BrewBama](#): > > I’d simply add if you are limited to dry yeast Munich Classic might be an option for you. > > ![0e890fcd74e3095277b725af64a41a3e.jpg](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/2X/8/809b2005bc9e832645acbb361c41153d77c2420a.jpeg) > > Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk I appreciate the input! Definitely gave me some things to think about. I had no idea the flavor rested completely on the yeast in this situation. ---
**Author:** ![BrewBama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewbama/32/21184_2.png) [@BrewBama](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/BrewBama)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 3:57pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/6 "2020-04-21T15:57:15Z")
Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 4:10pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/7 "2020-04-21T16:10:41Z")
> [@BrewBama](#): > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Beerery\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@Die\_Beerery\_1](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Die_Beerery_1)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 4:45pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/8 "2020-04-21T16:45:05Z")
I had a draft but you pushed me to commit my Weiss blog post, and thats here. [http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/hefe-weissbier-bavarian-style/](http://www.lowoxygenbrewing.com/brewing-methods/hefe-weissbier-bavarian-style/) ---
**Author:** ![BrewBama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewbama/32/21184_2.png) [@BrewBama](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/BrewBama)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 4:56pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/9 "2020-04-21T16:56:08Z")
> [@denny](#): > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. No, I’ve never brewed a here with extract. Do they make wheat extract?  🤷🏻‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:06pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/10 "2020-04-21T17:06:30Z")
> [@BrewBama](#): > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > > > Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. > > No, I’ve never brewed a here with extract. Do they make wheat extract?  🤷🏻‍♂️ They sure do!  Both liquid and dry. ---
**Author:** ![Die\_Beerery\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@Die\_Beerery\_1](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/Die_Beerery_1)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:18pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/11 "2020-04-21T17:18:10Z")
> [@denny](#): > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > > > > > Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. > > > > No, I’ve never brewed a here with extract. Do they make wheat extract?  🤷🏻‍♂️ > > They sure do!  Both liquid and dry. Unless they updated since the last time I checked (probably 10 years ago), the wheat extract was not 100%, so just keep in mind ratios and whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![ynotbrusum](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/ynotbrusum/32/10316_2.png) [@ynotbrusum](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/ynotbrusum)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:19pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/12 "2020-04-21T17:19:05Z")
Here’s what Weyermann discloses about its wheat malt extract products: “BAVARIAN HEFEWEIZEN •golden brown, unhopped extract with a high concentration, produced fromWeyermann® Wheat Malt, Weyermann® Pilsner Malt and Weyermann® CARAHELL® •it is produced by a decoction mashing process •the malt extract tastes very sweet with a well-balanced malt aroma •Weyermann® Bavarian Hefeweizen Extract produces typical Bavarian Weizen Beers,Ales and Weizen Bock Beers” Nothing specific about the step mashing, but I think it can be inferred that, since it is decocted, it likely involves some step mashing…one might think. ---
**Author:** ![BrewBama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewbama/32/21184_2.png) [@BrewBama](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/BrewBama)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/13 "2020-04-21T17:36:37Z")
Cool. I haven’t brewed with extract in years. I forget it’s even out there as an option. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/1X/f1a2211dcb353b921ed70873794a31db2031eccc.png) [@system](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:45pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/14 "2020-04-21T17:45:30Z")
> [@BrewBama](#): > > Cool. I haven’t brewed with extract in years. I forget it’s even out there as an option. I made a table a while back that allowed you to enter certain weights of Briess Extracts and get a readout of the approximate percentage of the individual components of each extract. It was pretty interesting. ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 5:52pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/15 "2020-04-21T17:52:41Z")
> [@Die\_Beerery](#): > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > > > > > > > Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. > > > > > > No, I’ve never brewed a here with extract. Do they make wheat extract?  🤷🏻‍♂️ > > > > They sure do!  Both liquid and dry. > > Unless they updated since the last time I checked (probably 10 years ago), the wheat extract was not 100%, so just keep in mind ratios and whatnot. That’s true.  Almost no extracyy I know of is 100% base malt.  But since mosy people don’t make here with 100% wheat I don’t think it’s an issue ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/1X/f1a2211dcb353b921ed70873794a31db2031eccc.png) [@system](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/16 "2020-04-21T18:40:04Z")
> [@denny](#): > > > [@Die\_Beerery](#): > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. > > > > > > > > No, I’ve never brewed a here with extract. Do they make wheat extract?  🤷🏻‍♂️ > > > > > > They sure do!  Both liquid and dry. > > > > Unless they updated since the last time I checked (probably 10 years ago), the wheat extract was not 100%, so just keep in mind ratios and whatnot. > > That’s true.  Almost no extracyy I know of is 100% base malt.  But since mosy people don’t make here with 100% wheat I don’t think it’s an issue Briess Pilsen is 99% Pils (1% Carapils), Briess Pale Ale is 100% Pale Ale, and I believe the Golden Light is 99% 2-Row (1% Carapils). ---
**Author:** ![jeffy](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jeffy/32/12842_2.png) [@jeffy](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jeffy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 6:44pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/17 "2020-04-21T18:44:24Z")
> [@BrewBama](#): > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. I thought I’d point out that a ferulic rest is closer to 110F (the internet says 104 - 122). ---
**Author:** ![denny](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/denny/32/13092_2.png) [@denny](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/denny)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 8:26pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/18 "2020-04-21T20:26:19Z")
> [@](#): > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > [@Die\_Beerery](#): > > > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. > > > > > > > > > > No, I’ve never brewed a here with extract. Do they make wheat extract?  🤷🏻‍♂️ > > > > > > > > They sure do!  Both liquid and dry. > > > > > > Unless they updated since the last time I checked (probably 10 years ago), the wheat extract was not 100%, so just keep in mind ratios and whatnot. > > > > That’s true.  Almost no extracyy I know of is 100% base malt.  But since mosy people don’t make here with 100% wheat I don’t think it’s an issue > > Briess Pilsen is 99% Pils (1% Carapils), Briess Pale Ale is 100% Pale Ale, and I believe the Golden Light is 99% 2-Row (1% Carapils). Which is why I used the qualifier ---
**Author:** ![BrewBama](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/brewbama/32/21184_2.png) [@BrewBama](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/BrewBama)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 8:31pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/19 "2020-04-21T20:31:05Z")
> [@jeffy](#): > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > I thought I’d point out that a ferulic rest is closer to 110F (the internet says 104 - 122). 👍 That’s what I get for not looking it up. I was shooting from the hip. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/original/1X/f1a2211dcb353b921ed70873794a31db2031eccc.png) [@system](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/system)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810/20 "2020-04-21T20:36:09Z")
> [@denny](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > [@Die\_Beerery](#): > > > > > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@denny](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [@BrewBama](#): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, it’s not just yeast. The yeast has to have the ferulic acid to start with to convert it into the clove flavor. As ynotbrusum pointed out a low initial mash temp at ~130\*F will help create this acid from the grain. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Have you ever made a huge with extract?  Those flavors are still there without any mashing at all.  I have no doubt that the ferulic rest might make them more prominent, but you can get them without any mashing. > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I’ve never brewed a here with extract. Do they make wheat extract?  🤷🏻‍♂️ > > > > > > > > > > They sure do!  Both liquid and dry. > > > > > > > > Unless they updated since the last time I checked (probably 10 years ago), the wheat extract was not 100%, so just keep in mind ratios and whatnot. > > > > > > That’s true.  Almost no extracyy I know of is 100% base malt.  But since mosy people don’t make here with 100% wheat I don’t think it’s an issue > > > > Briess Pilsen is 99% Pils (1% Carapils), Briess Pale Ale is 100% Pale Ale, and I believe the Golden Light is 99% 2-Row (1% Carapils). > > Which is why I used the qualifier Oh sure. I posted mostly to reiterate your point than as a gotcha. I think the Briess Wheat is 65%/35% Wheat/2-Row. [Next page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/seeking-wisdom-banana-and-clove-flavor-in-your-hefeweizen/29810.md?page=2)