we tried the hochkurz via recirc last time. Had numerous pump issues, then a clogged coil issue (turned out our false bottom was dented to the point of concavity!).
Infusion would be a lot simpler if we were to do it again. Braunhefe is definitely getting skimmed on the helles and likely the maibock. Starting a separate thread for my head retention issue.
Your palate is terrible, lol. Just kidding. I don’t know. Life is a dream and we’re just an imagination of ourselves…
I cant say if there’s a difference for a kolsch…haven’t done it. I will say I’m picking up differences in my pils doing a step. There is something related to mouthfeel that I perceive a fuller body without the residual sweetness one might expect with fuller body. I’m even perceiving something different in the nose-related to the attributes of the malt…more bready and gram cracker aroma. I had my wife take my single infusion pils and my two step pils and pour into two solo cups. I tasted both beers, and just wrote down my perceptions. They are identical recipes and hop schedules-only difference is the mash schedule. As noted, the step beer was perceived different to me. I like both beers very much, but they were different to me.
Doesn’t make a case either way, just noting my perceptions. I’m planning to continue to step and gather the data from my perspective. No extra work IMO to step…just a few minutes here or there. I am interested to see my o’fest and how that turns out vs my single infusion, and then some additional beers down the road.
Heavy, man…
Why only 40 minutes?
Ah, yes. Experience wonderful time savings without losing any efficiency or attenuation. Many long years ago, I ran a long series of mash time experiments and found that while conversion happens very fast within about 20 minutes, and thus, mash time has very little effect on efficiency, short mash times do have a very significant impact on fermentability/attenuation. In order to achieve full attenuation, 40 minutes is the magic mark. 30 minutes is long enough sometimes with fully crushed enzymatic malts, maybe 50% of the time. 35 minutes is a little better. 40 minutes is always long enough in my experience with all base malts. I will confess some concern however with Munich based beers where there’s more than about 50% Munich malt as your base malt – in cases like that I would still mash for at least 60 minutes just to be safe. More experiments may be needed for the Munich. But for anything and everything else – 2-row, 6-row, Pilsner malt, Maris Otter – 40 minutes is plenty, here in the 21st century. Maybe save some time on brew day, if you like, with zero ill effects.
Happy brewing. ;D
If you’re mashing for 40 minutes, then run off @ mash temp into kettle then rinse the grain again and add that to the kettle when does temperature of all run off actually exceed 170F? Even if you’re continuously heating during run off there must be an additional 5 - 15 minutes where the enzymes are still chewing away. That lag time would be different for each setup but in effect aren’t you still mashing for 45 - 60 minutes?
I’ve had a different experience personally. I took gravity readings throughout the brewday with a hockhurz mashed pils recently at 15m, 50m, and 120m and saw an increase (1.027 @ 15, 1.036 @ 50m, 1.042 at 120m).
I definitely get the argument that who cares about a conversion efficiency bump on the homebrew scale but I;ve been happy with the benefits of consistency, more control over attenuation, and better foam.
You are very correct. Bingo. There are a few differences in setup and process from homebrewer to homebrewer but by & large I think we can all get away with way less mash time than conventional wisdom would have us believe, and I have a desire to find the most efficient point of diminishing returns so I’m not wasting time or effort on things of little or no value.
And @BrodyR, my process does inherently assume a good fine crush of all the grains, proper mash pH between 5.2-5.5, etc. Having achieved efficiencies of 90% or more on 40-minute mashes with my process and equipment, I find no need to dork around any longer than the 40. Matter of fact, I opened the gap on my mill to reduce my efficiency some. But that is a story for another time!
I have likewise been advised that a proper Helles should be single decocted, at least, with a final temperature rest at 168F. Using German Pils malt, a bit of Carafoam and a teaspoon of Wyeast yeast nutrient fermented at 50F with a healthy pitch of Wyeast 2206 for a bit short of 2 weeks - aerated well! I can say the beer I tasted that was made this way was pretty darn tasty.
Brewing is a craft and if doing a step mash makes better beer for you (even if it is imaginary ) then do it. It should be about having fun, and for some people the extra steps are fun. When I do 5 and 10 gallon batches now I go single infusion all the way. But if I had a steam jacketed mash tun I admit I would do Hochkurz mash for everything and I would tell every one how bug a difference it makes and I would believe it too.
FTR: We have been debating the differences between decoction and non decocted mashes on this forum (and elsewhere) for as long as there has been an interwebs. I definitely think it makes a difference, at the very least in color and efficiency. I think the flavor is different too, I just don’t know that it is better.
My approach to the craft of brewing has been more focused on the fermentation side, which is where I think the major emphasis should be. If you have that dialed in then I think you are set to start playing around on the mash side. If not, then no amount of hochkurz or decoction is going to matter.
Good to see you around here still, Keith. 8)
I still brew on my homebrew system and still learn stuff from here!
From “The TextBook of Brewing Vol 1”:
There is much more information on the various mashing methods in the “Mashing” chapters.
If you don’t have both volumes of the “The TextBook of Brewing”, it really is worth the investment, IMHO.
Mashing centers around obtaining and preserving the best “palate” from a certain modification of malt.
It’s most definitely not about “adding or forming” flavor by using the different methods.
Malt flavor is added or formed during the malting process.
And if properly done… preserved in the mash.
Perceptions are funny things-especially when it comes to senses. What I see, taste, smell or hear can be very different than someone else. I’ve come to appreciate how vastly different peoples perceptions of things can be when it comes to brewing. I taste diacetyl at seemingly low levels. My buddy , well not so much. I say it’s there and it is not appealing and down right repulsive to me. To him, seems it takes a diacetyl bomb (my perception) before he picks it up. Ultimately, he says he doesn’t perceive it, and I say I do- neither is wrong.
Pick your process- decoction, step mashing, shaken vs stir plate, fast ferment vs traditional lager method…the list goes on and on. For me, someones perceptions about something are both fascinating and interesting. They don’t necessarily persuade or dissuade me from trying it to see what I perceive-especially if their perceptions are things that I feel might be desirable in my finished product. Exercising restraint in these situations is important IMO- if someone perceives something [or not], and doesn’t make all encompassing definitive statements like, “its the only way to make great beer”, or “if you don’t do it your beer is subpar” or “I’ve done it and it doesn’t make a difference”, then that’s ok in my book. I say keep doing what you perceive improves your beer or results in something different that you like better.
There are facts, and then there are perceptions…and the latter belongs to the sensory perceptions of the beholder, and is in fact their reality.
Well said.
Now that makes me want to step mash my next Kolsch. Agreed and well put. I have friends suck down batches that I would rather dump. Going to be 63 here tomorrow. I might just step mash my challenge beer! [emoji851]
The challenge beer is extract, no?
Maybe you can do a mental step mash?
[emoji848][emoji12]
I keep seeing differing responses to that. Some have said that DME just has to be an ingredient.
I have two different plans based on which rule interpretation is correct. If some form of mashing is allowed, I’m planning to decoct a pound or two of grain, then get the remainder of my sugars from DME.