Greetings,
My buddies and I regularly brew 15 gallons of all grain ales and usually have a starting gravity in the range of 1.060. As consistently, our fermentation seems to always stop between 1.020 and 1.019. Occasionally we get it to ferment a bit lower, to 1.016 or so. Our beer tastes good but seems to be a bit “starchy.” We usually mash at 149, then raise the temp to 155, then raise it again to 165 and sparge for 60-90 minutes with boiling water. We also use about 3/4 gallon of yeast starter. I should mention that we our grain bill is usually about 30lbs of 2row and a couple of pounds of crystal 60. Hops can vary.
Any suggestion as to how to get our final gravity down a bit for a dryer beer? I would be happy with something between 1.015 and 1.010.
Cameron
McMinnville, OR
Sparging with boiling water is not a good plan. You are likely extracting harsh tannins, which may or may not be the “starchy” flavor you are referring to. Whether it is a contributor to this issue or not, I highly recommend sparging with boiling water.
Have you ever tried doing a simple infusion mash. Basically a rest around 152 degrees for about an hour, then sparge with around 170-ish water? That’s pretty much all I do (I’ll go lower to 148-ish for more attenuation and up to 156 for beers where I want more body).
I’m sure thetooth meant: I highly recommend “NOT” sparging with boiling water.
You’ll do much better to keep the grainbed < 170F which usually works with sparge water at ~ 185F, so as not to pick up tannins.
What yeast are you using? That may be a contributor if you’re using a low attenuating yeast. Something like US05/1056/WLP001 should get you to 1.012 with that grainbill. Also, you might check on MrMalty.com about the appropriate starter size, to see if 3 quarts is sufficient for your 15gals at 1.060. You might need a bigger starter.
I also agree with thetooth that, with your grainbill you might as well do single infusion around 150-152 and baseline your beers’ FG that way.
Sometimes the paper in the hydrometer will shift after being jostled around. You might consider checking it with distilled 60* water.
That also seems like a lot of yeast for 15 gallons. How are you making the starter? Your yeast might not be as optimum as thought. Also the type of yeast is important. Some are done at higher gravities.
Try not sparging with boiling water. (I do this and have not had a problem with 10G)
Try a single infusion mash without mashout. (Actually, if you are raising to 165F and then sparging with boiling water, this could be it. That means your mash is probably getting past 180F+. I’m getting to mash out temps with boiling water from ~150F)
That’s an interesting point, Denny. As I understand it, both PH and Temp are factors… but that does lead to questions about how it isn’t an issue in decoction mashing.
Quote to note from chapter:
“Sparging is the rinsing of the grain bed to extract as much of the sugars from the grain as possible without extracting mouth-puckering tannins from the grain husks. Typically, 1.5 times as much water is used for sparging as for mashing (e.g., 8 lbs. malt at 2 qt./lb. = 4 gallon mash, so 6 gallons of sparge water). The temperature of the sparge water is important. The water should be no more than 170°F, as husk tannins become more soluble above this temperature, depending on wort pH. This could lead to astringency in the beer.”
For one thing, John is talking about fly sparging . The reason you can do decoction mashes is because the mash pH is low (see the part I bolded above). The real issue in tannin extraction is the pH getting above 6. It if stays in the proper range (as it almost always does in batch sparging) the risk of tannin extraction is very low to non existent.
Thanks for all the replies. We have been using 007 yeast just because of the attenuation rate. I will check yeast amounts for our batch sizes and lower the sparge temp. We use hydrometers and they calibrate out OK. I am concerned about oxygenation though and will put some effort in that direction. Cameron
I’m having the same problem with my IPA. Thought the yeast was dead, so I went to repitch but the fermentation started up (this was after a 3-4 day lag). I think the oxygen thing is probably a major player, maybe there just wasn’t enough after it was sitting there for that long… also I have a feeling my pitching temp was WAY lower than my thermometer was telling me. I bought a new one and was shocked to see how low it was after the lag time. Regardless, the hydro sample I just tested tasted really good. Still cloudy as hell, so maybe it’s still going down, but very tasty and I couldn’t really detect any off flavors.
In regards to tannin extraction, I’m assuming you are fly sparging since it’s taking 60-90 minutes. Since you are starting your sparge at 165F, I’m still betting your grain bed is over 180F if not over 190F by the time you are finished. I’m betting the $25 in my pocket that is the culprit behind the “starchy” flavor.
Try not going to mash out and starting your sparge from 155F as this will proababy get your grain bed to around 172-175F. Or, sparge with 175-180F water.
I was in Steinbarts last night getting supplies for our next batch and talked to the guys there. They suggested checking our mash temps/calibrating thermometer in the mash tun to be sure we are mashing at 149 degrees. They also suggested beginning fermentation in the 60’s to discourage esters then raise the temp to 72 +degrees after the the initial fermentation stage to get the last bit of fermentation.
Any thoughts on this advice?
Cameron
