I would skip the wheat and biscuit, and do it 50/50 of 2 row and MO. Adding the bochet honey sounds like a good idea. I really like stryrian goldings as a late hop in a barley wine, and it goes very well with 1469 West Yorkshire. In fact, this sounds a lot like a barley wine I made a few years ago. I say do it, and go crazy with the Stryian Goldings in the late additions. It’s a nice dry hop as well.
I find MO to have biscuity character as is, so I don’t think you’d need the biscuit. Wouldn’t hurt either, though. Maybe 5% C60? I’ve made several BW without any crystal and loved them, but some C60 can be good - I wouldn’t use more than 5%, personally. Past that, lots of 02/oxygenation, low mash temp ( I like 148F for 90 minutes for barleywine). Never used 1469 for BW, but being really flocculant, I’d be sure to ramp up and even rouse at the end, to keep from having it floc out early. As for hops, EKG late is always good for English BW. I think it’ll be good !
I went…
9.5 lb (38%) Two Row
9.5 lb (38%) Maris Otter
5.25 lb (20%) Munich
1 lb (4%) Victory
90 minute mash at 148 and 90 minute boil.
5.5 gallon batch
I hit about 60% efficiency to reach my target OG of 1.100.
It was an American BW so a bit more hopped. If I were to brew again, I wouldn’t change a thing with the grain bill. This beer exceeded my expectations by far. I just used WLP 001 yeast and started fermentation at 60 for about a week. I slowly let it rise to the low 70s. It fermented for 38 days. I kegged and stashed it in the closet for 9 months.
How about blending in some Golden Promise (Simpsons) with the Maris Otter (Crisp)? Haven’t brewed with GP yet, but bought a bag over the holiday. The description seems more mellow than Maris. Dropping my efficiency about 10 points as well.
Will also use a bit of Medium Crystal (Simpsons) as well.
10.5 gallons
18# 2-Row (GW)
10# MO (Crisp)
8# GP (Simpsons)
1.5# Medium Crystal (Simpsons)
Mash low at 148F, mash out.
50g Magnum (FW)
100g Styrians at 15
100g Styrians at 5
Let that stand for about 15 minutes
Dry Hop with Styrians for a week before packaging.
Will repitch slurry off a mild, about 760b cells. Will count to make sure I have a good pitch.
I think some Golden Promise would be a good blend in the base. I would just use the Magnum to bitter personally instead of first wort, and would probably use some of the Goldings to bitter as well. I’ve made English Barleywines with and without crystal malt, and prefer it without, but not by a ton. Otherwise, sounds good to me. Let us know how it turns out!
100% base malt and a big pitch of English Yeast are all you need for an English Barleywine. Time and a high enough FG will give you all the caramel/raisin flavors you need.
I’ve used all MO, as well as a combo of MO and Pils for English BW’s with great success. The combo of MO and GP should be nice as well.
I love GP! I would go with some combination of GP and MO. I don’t think you need any other body builders like wheat, but a teeny bit of flavor malts might be interesting. I agree that a long and low mash is desirable to boost the fermentability as much as possible to keep the beer from being a syrupy malt bomb. I like 146F for 90 min.
Simpson’s GP has a malty sweet taste as it is about 2.0L. Thomas Fawcett GP is around 3.5L and has a little more of the toasty malty taste.
I think GP and MO work well together in an English Barleywine. The one that I brewed last June used those, along with a little NA 2 row, as I was a little low on the MO and GP.
Now I am getting excited. Should be interesting to see how this goes. Looking forward to putting down some of this for a long age.
Still have to let my mild finish… I did it open ferment(ish) - and manually roused the yeast from the bottom of the conical. Will crash it soon. It’s incredibly fruity right now… And needs to shave another couple of points. Hopefully enough yeast harvest for both the Barleywine and a riggwelter clone.
I have never brewed a Barleywine, but drinking Avery’s Hog Heaven recently has me wanting to. So given the above counsel regarding an English BW, how would the grain bill be adjusted for an American BW? Or would it?
In particular the thing I loved about Hog Heaven is the wonderful hop flavors which were in my opinion the perfect compliment to this style.
my feeling on american barley wine is it’s all about the hops. once you age an american barley wine a year or more it basically turns into an english barley wine. so late hops and a neutral yeast. The difference between an american barley wine and an IIPA is the body and maltiness so skip any simple sugar additions as well. an all MO barley wine with us-05 and a really nice late hop character but with a really bracing bitterness sounds about right.
Evaporation Rate: 1.50 Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 12.75 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.096 SG 22.80 Plato
Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
66.7 41.00 lbs. Pale Ale Malt (2 Row) France 1.039 2
24.4 15.00 lbs. Munich Malt Great Western (2- America 1.035 10
4.9 3.00 lbs. CaraMunich 80 France 1.034 40
4.1 2.50 lbs. Crystal 60L America 1.034 60
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.
Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
5.00 oz. Zeus 2008 Whole 16.40 33.9 First WH
7.00 oz. Centennial (Kevin) Pellet 8.30 73.1 60 min.
2.00 oz. Amarillo 2008 Whole 9.50 7.9 10 min.
2.00 oz. Centennial (Kevin) Pellet 8.30 0.0 Dry Hop
Extras
Amount Name Type Time
1.00 Tsp Yeast Nutrient Other 10 Min.(boil)
2.00 Tsp Gypsum Other 60 Min.(boil)
1.00 Unit(s)Whirlfolc Fining 15 Min.(boil)
Yeast
Wyeast 1450 Denny’s Favorite
Mash Schedule
Mash Name:
Total Grain Lbs: 61.50
Total Water Qts: 88.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 22.00 - Before Additional Infusions
Tun Thermal Mass: 0.13
Grain Temp: 62.00 F
Step Rest Start Stop Heat Infuse Infuse Infuse
Step Name Time Time Temp Temp Type Temp Amount Ratio
sacc 0 60 152 152 Infuse 168 88.00 1.43
Total Water Qts: 88.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Water Gal: 22.00 - After Additional Infusions
Total Mash Volume Gal: 26.92 - After Additional Infusions
All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.
All infusion amounts are in Quarts.
All infusion ratios are Quarts/Lbs.
An American BW is a lot more hop-forward (both flavor and IBU). It also finishes a bit drier. It’s not bone-dry like an IIPA, but it should be dry enough where it’s not necessarily a sipper, either. I’d probably target mid-upper teens for an FG. My personal preference is a bit of caramel malt flavor, but not necessarily sweet.
An English BW is richer, with just enough hops to keep it from being cloying. While an English BW doesn’t have to be a heavy, sipping beer, it still has a bit more weight to it than an American BW. I prefer mine in the Thomas Hardy style - a sherry-like sipper. I tend to prefer just a flavorful base malt and yeast with no specialty grains.
Again, most of that is my personal preference. My American BW’s tend to be in the Bigfoot ballpark, and my English ones like Thomas Hardy. One has a serving size of a six-pack four-pack, while the other is best savored a few ounces at a time.
OK here is where I’m coming up with as a synthesis of my sources, with the goal of brewing something in the ballpark of Hog Heaven:
Leviathan American Barleywine (19 C)
Batch Size: 6.25 gal
20 lbs Maris Otter 90.9 %
1 lbs British Crystal (55.0 SRM) 4.5 %
1 lbs Cara Munich I (90.0 SRM) 4.5 %
3.00 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min 92.8 IBUs
1.50 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 0.0 min 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05)
2.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
1.50 oz Amarillo [8.50 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Dry Hop 5.0 Days 0.0 IBUs
Est Original Gravity: 1.099 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.019 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.7 %
Bitterness: 92.8 IBUs
I originally wanted to go with Denny’s Favorite for yeast but I think it’s alcohol tolerance is too low for this beer.
It seems that the general consensus is that British Barleywine has little to no crystal, but malty and interesting base malts and a balanced hop bitterness… And American much more like an IIPA with significant hop aroma and bitterness. Seems obvious, but I have had a few American BW that seems much less bitter than suggested in those recipes. Bigfoot for example. Firm bitterness and hoppy. But restrained. Even a few that were quite dark… Nearly BSG-like, but clean yeast character. All from aging?
Forgive the question, but it seems recipe and balance are particularly delicate/critical given the conditioning and age required. Worried that 65 ish calculated IBU may be too strong for a British, and clearly too little for an American. I want room with this to submit to comps with such a large batch… Assuming I don’t screw this up!