S-04 is quite widely used in NEIPA.
Agreed. If you want to see the most contrast, I’d suggest comparing it against a non-biotransformative yeast strain. I don’t know about 1450, but I don’t think US-05 does the biotransformation thing.
Not being a fan of biotransformation, I’ve never tried so I don’t know either.
I believe Bry-97 is supposed to be a biotransformation strain, and I’ve added hops during active fermentation but I didn’t notice a difference vs. regular dry hop. I think I did it wrong.
I’ve always wondered at what point in fermentation does the biotransformation process stop. I know the accepted practice has become to use hops early on to enhance biotransformation, but do we really know at what point it stops? A fully fermented beer retains enough yeast in suspension to carbonate the beer after priming. Does it retain enough activity to biotransform hops as well? I don’t know if I’ve seen anything in the literature that addresses this to my satisfaction. That is one possible explanation why you aren’t seeing a significant difference.
Roger, if you’re happy with the results you’re getting from verdant IPA, do you care what someone’ else’s opinion is? I homebrew to make the beer I like to drink. If others like it fine; if they prefer other other styles or recipes, I’m okay with that as well. Cheers to the beer you’ve brewed.
Thanks for this post, this is great advice for all brewers, new and more experienced who are reading this.
In the last year or so I have made an attempt to increase my understanding of yeast related issues. This has resulted in better results but also resulted in a habit of continuously questioning and gathering others experiences and opinions.
If you’re seeking his opinion to learn more, that’s great. I never know enough about anything. But, let your own experience be validation enough for beer that you like. Happy brewing!
Roger, brewing is a hobby where learning never stops. I started to brew 28 years ago and I am still learning.
I come to this forum to learn and discuss. I value the opinions of my fellow brewers and just enjoy chatting about beer. I don’t even always validate what I learn here. Lots of times I just trust you guys and gals [emoji33]
i think alot of the “still learning” factor is new styles/ingredients to take into account as much as a better understanding of already existing information.
no one i know IRL wants to know about the brewing related info that fascinates me, so i need to come here to discuss it.
And yet so many people still make the mistaking of asking questions at the door to the rabbit hole. Welcome Alice, let me explain… ;D :
Paul
It is far too easy to descend down the rabbit hole. I have spent the bulk of my time in amateur brewing descending down the rabbit hole. The deeper one gets, the worse it gets.
Agreed. I finally resurfaced and swore it wouldn’t happen again. Now it’s the brewing that matters to me, not where the rabbit goes.
I finally have a couple of Verdant brews that are mature enough to taste (both brewed back in July), and I am quite pleased with both.
The first was a milkshake IPA with a touch of lactose, my first time making that style, and my wife (who typically hates IPAs) loved it, and said it was my best brew ever. Unfortunately, I still did not get the attenuation I wanted (1.068 → 1.016) even after 23 days in FV, so I was a bit disappointed hoping for >80%, but the flavor is quite good. (I did not put much lactose in, so that’s not the reason). Mostly Glacier & Ariana hops, to about 62 IBU (with Millenium & Ariana bittering).
The other beer was an Imperial Porter (roughly), pitched on half the slurry from the above-batch (had a bit of blow out), and again I am quite pleased with the outcome even though it is still early (barely a month in bottles) and I expect it to improve. A bit better attenuation (1.098 → 1.020) and the residual sugar is appropriate for the style at 10+% ABV, but I would’ve liked it a teensy bit drier. Again though, wife said “this is your best beer you’ve made” and in another month or 2 I might have to agree. Hops were Progress & First Gold, with Millenium for bittering.
Granted, despite their marked difference in grain bills and in hoppiness profiles, these 2 beers were similar in that both styles I was targeting a fuller body/mouthfeel, with some milky/creamy hint, and I was hoping for some of that vanilla tone that I’d heard Verdant can give. I am thinking this yeast could work well for a Dark Mild, maybe also for an amber/red based on a ton of Munich malt.
Before Verdant, I would’ve probably used S05 plus a pinch of saison yeast (or Nottingham, when my basement temps are colder) for the IPA, and a co-pitch of Windsor +S05 for the Porter, to get the flavors of Windsor with a drier finishing attenuation. (It’s worth noting that I am a big fan of the Windsor taste, but it never attenuates to my preferred level of dryness on its own). Verdant seems to accomplish the same thing on its own, kind of drier Windsor, but in the future I may experiment with mostly Verdant plus a bit of a S05 or Saison co-pitch to dry it out a bit more. As it is though, these Verdant beers are quite good. Didn’t quite hit 80% (target mouth-feel sweet spot for me), but I think if I mash lower & longer (or step-mash), I can get there with Verdant. I like it.
I have only used dry yeasts, so I only have a dozen or so to compare it to.
did you add fruit or a flavour to the milkshake IPA? i hated them when i first tried them, but playing with the concept a bit in my mind i am intrigued by the possibilities of an intentionally sweetened beer heavy on an added flavour.
not familiar with verdant yet but 1.098 to 1.02 is really good IMHO and i wouldnt worry about that.
I did; I used a tiny packet of “crystalized blackberry” (powder) added after primary fermentation was complete, got it from Northern Brewer. I dissolved it in boiling water and let it cool to room temp before adding it to the [mostly finished] beer. I also used 2 teabags of herbal blackberry tea (Celestial Seasonings Wild Forest Blackberry) in the FV. I’ve done that (fruity herbal teas) with some saisons before, with good results.
The blackberry powder itself wasn’t sweetened, so the only sweetness was the lactose (which was just 5 oz in a roughly 8 lb. grain-bill) plus any residual sweetness from the malts. No actual fruit was used this time. My base was Golden Promise, so that probably helped, and I had 7% Mecca Grade Shamiko [wheat] which I think is also kind of sweet-ish. The only crystal was 1.5% CaraPils [8L] and 1.5% CaraVienne [20L].
It really was just the vaguest hint of sweetness, and it is possible that it was just the suggestion that made me expect sweetness. I’d be curious in a blind tasting if a drinker would perceive any sweetness, without knowing the name of the beer.