# Water Water everywhere **URL:** \ **Category:** Ingredients\ **Created:** [March 17, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482 "2015-03-17T19:14:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 12:10am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482/21 "2015-03-20T00:10:32Z")
> [@](#): > > The downfall with new brewers using the product is that it usually don’t work, and it can create its own set of off-flavors.  In your case, it seemed to help, but in almost every other case it causes problems and the new brewer would get frustrated with ‘water treatment’ as a result.  It made my beers worse, not better, when I started dabbling in making improvements to my beer in around 2006. Yeah, I agree, especially with the part that it could discourage new brewers from learning real water treatment.  I’ve used it in the past and it had nothing but negative impact on my beers, sometimes mildly minerally, sometimes more minerally. A complete fraud crap product IMO. I kicked myself for a good while when I got serious about pH and realized it wasn’t that tough at all. ---
**Author:** ![pmorrissette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/pmorrissette/32/2952_2.png) [@pmorrissette](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/pmorrissette)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 12:33am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482/22 "2015-03-20T00:33:53Z")
I’m having a really hard time getting my pH right, even with Bru’n water. All the literature/products for water treatment are geared towards three vessel systems, and while BIAB appears to be a simple adjustment it’s proving otherwise. This is the first really frustrating hurdle I’ve encountered home brewing, and it’s driving me crazy. I did pretty well in chemistry in college, and that’s adding to the frustration. I feel like when I have the time to sit down and really learn the chemistry involved I’ll be fine. However, that’s not likely to happen between 50+ hour work weeks and engineering classes…  :-\ ---
**Author:** ![jonhughey\_att.net](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/jonhughey_att.net/32/6277_2.png) [@jonhughey\_att.net](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/jonhughey_att.net)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 12:44am UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482/23 "2015-03-20T00:44:02Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m having a really hard time getting my pH right, even with Bru’n water. All the literature/products for water treatment are geared towards three vessel systems, and while BIAB appears to be a simple adjustment it’s proving otherwise. > > This is the first really frustrating hurdle I’ve encountered home brewing, and it’s driving me crazy. I did pretty well in chemistry in college, and that’s adding to the frustration. I feel like when I have the time to sit down and really learn the chemistry involved I’ll be fine. However, that’s not likely to happen between 50+ hour work weeks and engineering classes…  :-\ I hear you, Phil. Getting water right was my last step.  Bru’nwater relies on really accurately entering your info - all water volumes, grist, L numbers, categories (base, roast, etc.). I assume you have this down and still are off from predicted ?  I ask because it took some trial and error for me. We can help you figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![pmorrissette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/pmorrissette/32/2952_2.png) [@pmorrissette](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/pmorrissette)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 1:21pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482/24 "2015-03-20T13:21:26Z")
I’ve been talking with mchrispen and it we’ve made progress on figuring out what went wrong with the target pH. I’ve got a plan for next time, and I’m working on getting a “real” pH meter. I’ll be sure and report back with how things go.  🙂 ---
**Author:** ![morticaixavier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb9ed0/32.png) [@morticaixavier](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/morticaixavier)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482/25 "2015-03-20T13:31:32Z")
> [@](#): > > I’m having a really hard time getting my pH right, even with Bru’n water. All the literature/products for water treatment are geared towards three vessel systems, and while BIAB appears to be a simple adjustment it’s proving otherwise. > > This is the first really frustrating hurdle I’ve encountered home brewing, and it’s driving me crazy. I did pretty well in chemistry in college, and that’s adding to the frustration. I feel like when I have the time to sit down and really learn the chemistry involved I’ll be fine. However, that’s not likely to happen between 50+ hour work weeks and engineering classes…  :-\ I would think BIAB would be similar to no-sparge when using bru’n water, in which case you simply put your whole volume in as mash volume and go from there. It seems to work for me fairly well. Granted I don’t measure pH but I don’t get pH related issues in my beer either. ---
**Author:** ![pmorrissette](https://sea1.discourse-cdn.com/brewersassociation/user_avatar/forum.homebrewersassociation.org/pmorrissette/32/2952_2.png) [@pmorrissette](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/u/pmorrissette)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2015, 3:58pm UTC](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482/26 "2015-03-20T15:58:24Z")
Somehow my copy of Bru’n water yielded a mash pH estimate that was high. mchrispen got the actual values I ended up with in my mash with both the regular and supported versions of Bru’n water. I’m going to get the supported version of Bru’n water and aim for pH 5.4 on my next beer, see where that gets me. If I can afford a better pH meter that will help as well. [Previous page](https://forum.homebrewersassociation.org/t/water-water-everywhere/19482.md?page=1)