What makes a Bock, a Bock?

General Homebrew Discussion
1

I thought I would start a discussion on Styles, so to start I ask,

What makes a Bock, a Bock?

from the BJCP website BJCP.org

[quote]5B. Traditional Bock
Aroma: Strong malt aroma, often with moderate amounts of rich melanoidins and/or toasty overtones. Virtually no hop aroma. Some alcohol may be noticeable. Clean. No diacetyl. Low to no fruity esters.

Appearance: Light copper to brown color, often with attractive garnet highlights. Lagering should provide good clarity despite the dark color. Large, creamy, persistent, off-white head.

Flavor: Complex maltiness is dominated by the rich flavors of Munich and Vienna malts, which contribute melanoidins and toasty flavors. Some caramel notes may be present from decoction mashing and a long boil. Hop bitterness is generally only high enough to support the malt flavors, allowing a bit of sweetness to linger into the finish. Well-attenuated, not cloying. Clean, with no esters or diacetyl. No hop flavor. No roasted or burnt character.

Mouthfeel: Medium to medium-full bodied. Moderate to moderately low carbonation. Some alcohol warmth may be found, but should never be hot. Smooth, without harshness or astringency.

Overall Impression: A dark, strong, malty lager beer.

Comments: Decoction mashing and long boiling plays an important part of flavor development, as it enhances the caramel and melanoidin flavor aspects of the malt. Any fruitiness is due to Munich and other specialty malts, not yeast-derived esters developed during fermentation.

History: Originated in the Northern German city of Einbeck, which was a brewing center and popular exporter in the days of the Hanseatic League (14th to 17th century). Recreated in Munich starting in the 17th century. The name “bock” is based on a corruption of the name “Einbeck” in the Bavarian dialect, and was thus only used after the beer came to Munich. “Bock” also means “billy-goat” in German, and is often used in logos and advertisements.

Ingredients: Munich and Vienna malts, rarely a tiny bit of dark roasted malts for color adjustment, never any non-malt adjuncts. Continental European hop varieties are used. Clean lager yeast. Water hardness can vary, although moderately carbonate water is typical of Munich.

Vital Statistics:  OG: 1.064 – 1.072 
IBUs: 20 – 27  FG: 1.013 – 1.019 
SRM: 14 – 22  ABV: 6.3 – 7.2%

Commercial Examples: Einbecker Ur-Bock Dunkel, Pennsylvania Brewing St. Nick Bock, Aass Bock, Great Lakes Rockefeller Bock, Stegmaier Brewhouse Bock
[/quote]

But I again ask, what makes this style different from others.

Fred

2

Munich malt, munich malt and lots of it, and some munich malt too-German hops and only at th begining of th boil
and not much-German lager yeast- aging it for a long time(th hard part for me), tripple decoction.
I know you didnt ask how do we make it but all of the above sets a bock apart from a say dark or amber lager JMO
Matt

3

All you need to do is put a picture of a goat on the label  ;D

4

Definitely Munich malt (and lager yeast). Unless you are talking about a Maibock and that is just technically a Helles brewed to Bock strength with, in some instances, some added specialty malts and a little more hops.

5

IMHO there are two components to what makes a style a style,

  • History, which includes traditional techniques (i.e. decoction) and location (think water chemistry)
  • Ingredients which lead to flavor.

anything else?

6

Yeast selection

7

So, Fred and Matthew seem to be saying that a bock must be decocted or it’s not a bock.  To me, it’s all in the glass…if it tastes like what a bock should taste like, it’s a bock no matter how it’s made.

8

No Denny, I’m not saying a Bock MUST be decocted to be a Bock.  I’m saying that historically Bock’s were decocted and that process developed flavors that contributed to the style definition.  Ultimately it is a flavor determination that was originally derived from a decoction.  There are now other ways to emulate the contribution of a decoction which are argued about how accurately they capture the flavor contribution.

Fred

9

The last beer I made was a Maibock and it didnt turn out to good, dont know what I did but it just
wasnt that great.As far as a Bock goes I guess I forgot to add that it needs to be a stronger lager
and I still monkey with th water by softing it a tiny bit, my water is a little to hard for any lagers
'sept for a Dort maybe and thats a big maybe but I’m not all that up to snuff with water and PH and
such. For all th trouble I would go thru to brew a Bock, mine never really are good enough.Deffinitly a
tuff style to brew.It has to have a good Munich malt profile for me more that anything else.

And yeah Denny it doesnt matter how I get th flavor as long as it’s there

10

This statement reminds me that some Austrian Winemakers in 1990s were putting antifreeze to their wines just to get that exact flavor without expense of process.

They got the flavor all right…

11

Fortunately these brewers wer limited to water, malt, hops, and yeast.

No matter what I’m not adding anti-freeze to any beer.

12

Good plan :smiley:

13

I’ve used Melanoidin with good results but I still dont think it’s th same but I may be tring to justify
all that trouble of a trip-decoct  :wink:
Ani-freeze? surely you jest?

14

Thanks for the clarifications, Matt and Fred.

15

Aromatic works well too.

16

At NHC last year, there was a club (COHO?  Starnge Brew?)  that had brewed the same beer 3 ways to see what decoction would bring to the game.  Here are the results that were emailed to me…

"We had the:

A)    non-decocted beer (dopplebock),

B)      the triple-decocted beer (same recipe)

C)      and a non-decocted beer (replaced ~4-5% of the base malt with melanoidin malt).

We asked which beer they thought was decocted.  Results were:

A: 13.89%

B: 45.83%

C: 40.28%

In terms of which beer people liked (rank ordered), here were the votes:

A

B

C

1

16

34

24

2

24

19

23

3

29

13

19

After applying a basic weighting, you come up with B, C, A.

So, the main point we took away was that it really was pretty close between decoction and melanoidin.  The preference likely just came down to intangibles.

Anyhow, my basic observation was that for saving 4-5 hours, melanoidin malt is well worth it."

17

Kevin in my club performed a similar experiment with slightly different results.  He brewed several different beers using a decocted and substituted recipe.  one style showed a decided preference toward the decocted beer. One style showed the substituted recipe had a decided preference.  Feeling was that one of the intangible brewing variables hit each one of those.

Of the rest, split down the middle as to preference with half prefering the decocted beer and half the substituted beer.

18

Decoct or not to decoct.
That’s a question.

And topic lives on.

19

Mmmmm, Munich Helles, one of my favorites.

20

I don’t decoct.

I like my german lagers the way they are.

My neighbors and friends like them.

I regularly score well and win medals with them at fairly large comps when I’m not in a hoarding mood, so apparently other people like them aside from friends who could just be patronizing the free beer giver…

Nuff said.

As for what makes a bock a bock, I think its as was said: copious amounts of munich malt and lager yeast.  That’s what sets it apart from say a dunkel, with or without a decoction process - both styles are traditionally decocted, but one is smaller and more sessionable, otherwise rather similar.  Least thats JMHO.