I have an upcoming brew that calls for WLP545 (Ardennes) but have 530 (Abbey) on hand.
How significantly different would the beer turn out if I were to use 530 instead of 545? Really noticeable or …?
Westmalle (530) is a little more fruity than LaChouffe (545), but I wouldn’t worry about it.
I would. To me the flavor profiles are very different.
I find the Ardennes strain to be quite distinct. And it’s one of my favorites for lighter colored Belgians.
I think you’ll make good beer with either, but if your recipe calls for Ardennes I’d go with that if you can as the yeast will impart a lot of character to the beer.
+1. I get more banana/clove from the Westmalle strain, where IMO the LaChouffe strain is somewhat fruity and distinct. As always fermentation temps come into play with esters and phenols. I wouldn’t consider them interchangeable though.
Definitely banana for the Westmalle. I get almost a tartness from Ardennes. But a pleasant tartness.
Never tried Ardennes, but I’ve used Westmalle in a dubbel at 64F (wort temp) and get distinct banana with little-to-no clove. I was quite disappointed.
It’s for a DFH Raison D’etre batch. I ask because I have 530 on hand from a Westy 12 batch. As long as I am in the same ballpark, I’ll be happy.
The batch is pretty simple @ 91% 2 row, 3% chocolate, 2% crystal 60, and 3.4% dark candi sugar.
Interesting. When I run it at that temp, I get some nice phenolics and almost no esters.
+1
Definitely more of a spicy character and a lower fruitiness at higher temps.
I think we’re contradicting each other, Ron. I was saying that at low temps I get more spice and less fruit. You seem to be saying you get that at higher temps. Is that right?
I agree with Denny. Westmalle yeast at mid 60s is more spicy and less fruity (which would make an adequate substitute for Ardennes yeast, but I’m not going there… ;))
I dunno about “adequate”. It would make it more like the Ardennes, but it still wouldn’t have the tart spiciness I like about Ardennes.
I’ve only used the 3787 once. I brewed a 5 gallon batch with a 1.067 OG. I mashed at 149F, and the malt bill was:
75.5% Pils
7% Munich
7% D180 Sugar
3.5% Special B
3.5% Aromatic
3.5% Caramunich III
After looking at my notes, I see I oxygenated the wort for 45 seconds with pure O2 and pitched a 1.040 2L starter of Wyeast 3787. This means I pitched roughly 400 Billion, when I needed around 240 Billion. This probably explains the excessive ester notes I received. I think I’ll need to rebrew this and pitch closer to the target amount to see if I observe more clove.
Denny - do you get a tart spiciness from DFH Raison D’etre?
I made a mistake, sorry all. White’s equivalent of Ardennes is 510, not 545 …
3522 - Belgian Ardennes Yeast → WLP510 Belgian Bastone Ale Yeast
Apparently 510 is only available on Jan/Feb.
Other comparison charts state 550 or 545. I’m confused …
I made a mistake too. I get banana from Rochefort not from Westmalle.
Westmalle I get more spice/clove but still quite different from Ardennes. Ardennes, to me, is quite unique.
Then is 545 the correct White strain, a replacement for Wyeast 3522 Belgian Ardennes?
I’ve always relied on the Kristen England chart on Mr.Malty. He says 550 = 3522. I have no personal experience with White Labs yeast.
I emailed White Labs last night.