A Look Ahead - 2023 and the American Homebrewers Association

[denny]

@denny

@denny

@BrewBama

@denny

…lobbying (… state level)

Lobbying is exactly what they do.

Has this changed? I have been told in the past on this forum that the AHA does not lobby at the state level.  …that they leave it up to local organizations/clubs/individuals to lobby their legislators/governors.  …that they leave it up to me. …that the last thing state level government wants is outside organizations to lobby for a cause in their state.

You are correct. I was thinking of the shipping issue. The lobbying happens at the federal level. There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

You could certainly argue that there is a need to lobby on a state level as the proposed federal changes, I believe, leave open the ability of states to ban shipping of alcohol. The wording in the AHA article does not indicate directly that they lobby. It basically says they “support” clubs, individuals, and such to change state laws. I would like to learn more about this. Support can be a wide variety of actions, from the completely ineffectual to very robust and successful.

What would you like to know? I was involved in getting our state laws changed with AHA support. Other forum members have done the same their states

We are talking about legalizing shipping of homebrew as mentioned in the article linked in the O.P. So I am wondering what the AHA, right now and in the near future, is doing to support changing laws in this regard. The article in the E.D.'s “Director’s Cut” made clear they were doing something, but I would be interested in more details.

Shipping is a federal issue, so you can’t address it at the state level. I could fill you in, but I don’t want to be risk violating my NDA.

[pete_baker (pete b)]

@denny

@denny

@denny

@BrewBama

@denny

…lobbying (… state level)

Lobbying is exactly what they do.

Has this changed? I have been told in the past on this forum that the AHA does not lobby at the state level.  …that they leave it up to local organizations/clubs/individuals to lobby their legislators/governors.  …that they leave it up to me. …that the last thing state level government wants is outside organizations to lobby for a cause in their state.

You are correct. I was thinking of the shipping issue. The lobbying happens at the federal level. There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

You could certainly argue that there is a need to lobby on a state level as the proposed federal changes, I believe, leave open the ability of states to ban shipping of alcohol. The wording in the AHA article does not indicate directly that they lobby. It basically says they “support” clubs, individuals, and such to change state laws. I would like to learn more about this. Support can be a wide variety of actions, from the completely ineffectual to very robust and successful.

What would you like to know? I was involved in getting our state laws changed with AHA support. Other forum members have done the same their states

We are talking about legalizing shipping of homebrew as mentioned in the article linked in the O.P. So I am wondering what the AHA, right now and in the near future, is doing to support changing laws in this regard. The article in the E.D.'s “Director’s Cut” made clear they were doing something, but I would be interested in more details.

Shipping is a federal issue, so you can’t address it at the state level. I could fill you in, but I don’t want to be threatened with violating my NDA.

My understanding is that it is a federal and state issue. If the federal law allows shipping by USPS states can still choose to not allow it in their states. That is already happening with the carriers that do currently allow shipping of alcohol. You can’t get it in every state. I read the article a few days ago but that’s how I remember it.

[Drewch (Drew C.)]

@denny

There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

I disagree. It’s legal, yes. But there’s tremendous variation in what’s allowed (how much you can brew, how much you can have on hand, can it legally leave your home, etc, etc) in each state. There’s still work to be done at the state level.

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

@Drewch

@denny

There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

I disagree. It’s legal, yes. But there’s tremendous variation in what’s allowed (how much you can brew, how much you can have on hand, can it legally leave your home, etc, etc) in each state. There’s still work to be done at the state level.

There is plenty to do in Alabama. We have very few competitions here because the rules around them require too much red tape.

In Mississippi, where I used to live, we had lots of small competitions. Those were fun because you knew everyone.

We also are limited to brewing 15 gallons a quarter and we can only have 15 gallons of home brewed beer in our house. We can store all the commercial beer we want. That part of the law is commonly ignored, but it’s definitely stupid and what if someone gets cited for this someday? That would be ridiculous.

[Drewch (Drew C.)]

There is plenty to do in Alabama. We have very few competitions here because the rules around them require too much red tape.

In Mississippi, where I used to live, we had lots of small competitions. Those were fun because you knew everyone.

We also are limited to brewing 15 gallons a quarter and we can only have 15 gallons of home brewed beer in our house. We can store all the commercial beer we want. That part of the law is commonly ignored, but it’s definitely stupid and what if someone gets cited for this someday? That would be ridiculous.

Alabama was where I was thinking of most. It’s where I started homebrewing (and where I’m probably moving back to next year).  Everyone agrees the law is dumb in many ways. As far as I can tell, ABC has no interest in enforcing it, but it’s still on the books.

[BrewBama (Dwain)]

This is another great reason why the AHA needs local chapters. The AHA can lobby local needs if they are local.

If the local chapter of NORML (among others) can get medical cannabis passed in AL, I believe ANYTHING can happen.

[wbaar2 (Wilbur)]

IL only allows you to serve 3x 2 oz samples to the public with a permit. I know there are clubs out there that ignore that, but my club and I don’t want to skirt the law. We’d be doing more educational/charitable outreach if that wasn’t so strict. I’m sure there’s a legal loophole or two we could use, but we don’t want to raise any negative attention.

[Skeeter686]

IL only allows you to serve 3x 2 oz samples to the public with a permit. I know there are clubs out there that ignore that, but my club and I don’t want to skirt the law. We’d be doing more educational/charitable outreach if that wasn’t so strict. I’m sure there’s a legal loophole or two we could use, but we don’t want to raise any negative attention.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

One of the many joys of living in one of the most corrupt states in the nation.  As I understand it, the law was originally going to be much more reasonable until Big Beer greased some political palms.

[HopDen]

IL only allows you to serve 3x 2 oz samples to the public with a permit. I know there are clubs out there that ignore that, but my club and I don’t want to skirt the law. We’d be doing more educational/charitable outreach if that wasn’t so strict. I’m sure there’s a legal loophole or two we could use, but we don’t want to raise any negative attention.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

There are approximately 100K federal laws on the books. I don’t think the ATF (Fed or State) is looking to bust your local club. Pour the friggin beer  without worry!

[wbaar2 (Wilbur)]

@Skeeter686

IL only allows you to serve 3x 2 oz samples to the public with a permit. I know there are clubs out there that ignore that, but my club and I don’t want to skirt the law. We’d be doing more educational/charitable outreach if that wasn’t so strict. I’m sure there’s a legal loophole or two we could use, but we don’t want to raise any negative attention.

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk

One of the many joys of living in one of the most corrupt states in the nation.  As I understand it, the law was originally going to be much more reasonable until Big Beer greased some political palms.

Sent from my SM-X700 using Tapatalk

Hey, only 4 out the last 10 governors have been arrested.

It’s not the ATF I’m concerned about, there is also the state liquor commission (maybe the city as well?). We also do most of our events in conjunction with other groups that get special event liquor licenses, so I’d hate to do anything that might jeopardize their ability to get liquor licenses in the future.

[ynotbrusum]

Insurance coverage is also a significant issue for many events…“just pouring the beer” without giving thought about the potential liability merits re-consideration.  Unfortunately, we live in a litigious society, so ignoring rules can put you in hot water.

That said, I think many states should loosen up the rules when it comes to serving homebrew and let self-control or lack of it be the responsibility of the “self” who is consuming the homebrew.

[CascadesBrewer (Brent Langdon)]

@Drewch

@denny

There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

I disagree. It’s legal, yes. But there’s tremendous variation in what’s allowed (how much you can brew, how much you can have on hand, can it legally leave your home, etc, etc) in each state. There’s still work to be done at the state level.

I 100% agree!  Here in Virginia there is a constant struggle of where homebrew clubs can meet and competitions can be held.  The law seems to say that 2 oz pours can be served for evaluation or competition.  Some people think serving any homebrew at a brewery is not allowed.  If you ask the the ABC, they will pretty much always say that homebrewed beer is not allowed.  So some breweries and restaurants are okay with hosting clubs and competitions, some do not out of fear of loosing their license.

[juliaherz]

Hello BrewBama, Amy Martin, mainbrewer, Megary, HopDen Skeeter686, BrewenWKooperCat, tommemorris, pete b, Wilber, pv, Drewch, Fire Rooster, YnotBrewsum, Denny and everyone taking your valuable time to read this.

Thank you for this thread and the time behind all your comments, questions, and input. LOTS to unpack and learn from, and I’m here to do just that as a homebrewer, AHA member since the 1990’s and advocate.

Homebrew Shipping
Getting at the legality of homebrew shipping to competitions is of interest, especially since it’s a top topic members ask about and mention in our surveys. From my Zymurgy Jan/Feb 2023 column: Today, we stand ready to do the same for shipping and assist unified state efforts where homebrew clubs and state brewers guilds are in sync. Please get in touch with us if your club or state has active efforts, and for those wanting to know about this issue’s history, check out Brewers Association Continues Efforts to Legalize USPS Shipping of Alcohol. Here is a link to that article https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/news/brewers-association-continues-efforts-to-legalize-usps-shipping-of-alcohol/.

In my new tenure as your Executive Director, I’m looking to learn where the roadblocks exist and what opportunities can be created. Reaching out to private carriers (UPS / Fed Ex) is in the works. If anyone has contacts please send them my way.

Clubs
In 2022 I gave more than 60 presentations (in-person or virtual), with many at homebrew clubs. For example, I spoke at the state brewers guild conference in North Carolina (Winston-Salem), reached out to all area homebrew clubs in advance of my trip to see if we could connect and also visited Bull City Homebrew Shop in Durham. What a great trip that was, and one day I’d love to be able to say I got to connect directly with clubs/homebrewers in every state (and beyond the U.S.) on behalf of the AHA. That will take time and invitations. Here is our updated speaker request https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/contact-us/virtual-in-person-speaking-engagement-request/. The longer in advance, the better, plus AHA Governing Committee members are options for speaking too. Additionally, one by one, I’m doing outreach to all of the 2K+ clubs in our list https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/homebrew-clubs/find-a-homebrew-club/.

For homebrew-centric travels, please consider following me on @immaculatefermentation. Speaking of travel my next trip is to Chicago for the first week in February and I’m excited to get the chance to homebrew with the CHAOS homebrew club. Anyone who wants to join us please DM me direct or email.

Cheers to all and the chance to learn from you, and for knowing that the AHA is looking toward the future of homebrewing and where we can all collectively advance the hobby.

Julia
julia@brewersassociation.org
@immaculatefermentation

[BrewBama (Dwain)]

Julia,

I appreciate your response to concerns/suggestions. I support your efforts even though I probably don’t fully understand the level commitment and hard work you’ve undertaken.  Sounds like you have a ‘next level’ mentality that many will get behind.  It is encouraging.

I also appreciate your taking the time to communicate both here and thru local interactions.  Sounds like y’all are going to have fun in Chicago.  May I recommend starting something like a ‘where the hell is Julia going next’ thread to periodically update your dates and publish trip reports along with a few photos. I wish you well in your travels.

If you’re ever in N AL I hope to raise a pint together. Don’t be a stranger.

(BTW, love the ‘beer goggles’.)

Cheers! — Dwain

[KellerBrauer]

@BrewBama

I apologize for this being so long. But I have been thinking about this along side the other post about why anyone other than white males don’t enter beers in competitions.

You want to grow membership? Three suggestions:

1. Quit running the organization like a woke trade group.  Run it like a motorcycle gang.  IOW run decentralized local chapters vs a centralized organization. (Example: the Army Aviation Alumni Association (AAAA https://www.quad-a.org/)). Not just a homebrew club that may or may not be a member of AHA but local chapters of a national organization. People want to belong to a local group of like minded individuals that share interests. Maybe a club can become a chapter or maybe several clubs make up a chapter. Maybe some clubs that make up a chapter will be all women, or Hispanic, or LGBQ… or just some members will be. Who cares. Quit focusing on the who and start focusing on the what.

2. Visit chapters. Snap photos. Publish them. It doesn’t have to be a forced event but when a member of leadership happens to be in an area and stops by a brewery for a beer tell some freakin body so they can meet and greet. Give the 2 minute elevator speech about where we’re headed and offer a toast. 30 minutes to an hour of management by walking around can do wonders to an organization.

3. Quit snubbing current membership. Find out where the membership is and meet them where they are. Quit with the excuses of the South can’t serve homebrew to the public. BS. We did it in Huntspatch and y’all were about to in Nastyville. Need nightlife, hotels, restaurants? Have you been to Knoxville, Atlanta, Asheville, Charleston, etc? Just quit with the excuses.

When I first started brewing beer in the 90(s) it was because I enjoy making stuff myself. I smoke meat, bake bread, cure bacon, garden, etc, etc. I wasn’t interested in sending my beer off to the county fair to have it judged against my neighbors to see who likes my beer. My satisfaction comes from combining raw ingredients into something I like to drink. That’s your target. Quit forcing diversity and find people. Not a certain gender. Not a certain color. Just people. People who like to make stuff. That target audience will naturally be diverse. Quit forcing it.

I had no idea there was a homebrew association back then. I later joined the AHA for a few years but was quickly turned off by the cost benefit analysis. As I said I don’t compete and it wasn’t worth me sending money to get a magazine full of advertisements for the latest shiny object, lists of competitors I don’t know, far off competitions, and endorsements and articles by celebrity homebrewers to add to the stack of other magazines in the bathroom. So I let my membership lapse years ago. The magazine and exclusive web access aren’t worth it to me.

Besides the negative cost benefit of membership, another reason I let my membership lapse is because of the big show put on every year on the West Coast, North, and N East Coast. The guys here have heard it before and I imagine they’re standing by with their ready made excuses. The fact is: Everyone is diligently working to try to grow the organization by including diverse groups while simultaneously ignoring the fact that over 25% of the current membership in the organization is based in the South yet hasn’t had a presence there in over a decade. Let that sink in.

A few years ago, the former grand poobah visited Nashville to set up the show there. Imagine that. All the excuses of why the show can’t come to the South were BS. Still are. Unfortunately, that show was cxl due to Covid. The show must go on so it’s back on the West Coast. Y’all have fun!

Turns out, during that visit, the grand poobah  made a whistle stop in Huntsville. Did he let anyone know he was in town? Nope. No AHA affiliated homebrew club came out to meet him. No announcement on AHA forum for a meet and greet. No one knew. Nada. He stopped by a local brewery drank a beer and snapped a photo with Keith. That’s how the local AHA members found out he was here. After the fact. What a wasted opportunity to touch base with local members that have been snubbed for over a decade. That photo could have been a few local homebrewers hoisting a glass at that brewery.  It could have been put in the magazine, here on the forum, and on the local clubs’ webpages. More beer sold for the brewery, membership getting a chance to rub elbows with the chief, photo op for the clubs and AHA. Win-win-win.  But no. The opportunity was squandered. Once again a snub to the members in the South.

And finally; We had a little fundraiser a while back. Local homebrewers brought donated, untaxed, homebrewed beer so the sponsor could sell a taster glass to the public to try the beer.  A cpl clubs came with a few members each. Here’s the thing: the ‘unaffiliated’ tent had more homebrewers under it than one of the clubs and was on par with the other. No one asked who anybody slept with, no one noticed what color the homebrewers or tasters were, no one asked what pronouns were used. No one cares. In the Deep South. We cared about coming together as homebrewers and the public to raise money for a cause. It was a naturally diverse group.

I was in the Army 21 yrs. The Army set up a framework to allow people from all walks of life to volunteer. I didn’t care who the soldier was next to me. I didn’t care what color they were, what sex they were, or what they did on their off time in their bedroom. What I cared about was performance. Can they do the job they were trained to do. Can they complete the mission.  I have many brothers and sisters I love and respect from all races, ethnic groups, genders, etc. That stuff just doesn’t matter.

The point: quit focusing on the who and start focusing on the what. Set up a framework so diversity can happen naturally. Quit forcing it.

Very well said, BrewBama!

[denny]

@Drewch

@denny

There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

I disagree. It’s legal, yes. But there’s tremendous variation in what’s allowed (how much you can brew, how much you can have on hand, can it legally leave your home, etc, etc) in each state. There’s still work to be done at the state level.

I 100% agree!  Here in Virginia there is a constant struggle of where homebrew clubs can meet and competitions can be held.  The law seems to say that 2 oz pours can be served for evaluation or competition.  Some people think serving any homebrew at a brewery is not allowed.  If you ask the the ABC, they will pretty much always say that homebrewed beer is not allowed.  So some breweries and restaurants are okay with hosting clubs and competitions, some do not out of fear of loosing their license.

This is very much what happened here in OR and other states. Local clubs organized and lobbied state legislatures with help and support from the AHA. We got a state legislator (who happened to be a homebrewer) to write and introduce the bill. The AHA provided us with support and then Director Gary Glass came and testified.

[pete_baker (pete b)]

@denny

@Drewch

@denny

There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

I disagree. It’s legal, yes. But there’s tremendous variation in what’s allowed (how much you can brew, how much you can have on hand, can it legally leave your home, etc, etc) in each state. There’s still work to be done at the state level.

I 100% agree!  Here in Virginia there is a constant struggle of where homebrew clubs can meet and competitions can be held.  The law seems to say that 2 oz pours can be served for evaluation or competition.  Some people think serving any homebrew at a brewery is not allowed.  If you ask the the ABC, they will pretty much always say that homebrewed beer is not allowed.  So some breweries and restaurants are okay with hosting clubs and competitions, some do not out of fear of loosing their license.

This is very much what happened here in OR and other states. Local clubs organized and lobbied state legislatures with help and support from the AHA. We got a state legislator (who happened to be a homebrewer) to write and introduce the bill. The AHA provided us with support and then Director Gary Glass came and testified.

That sounds like a good model. I agree with BB’s idea that if AHA folks come to an area for business it would be great to put the word out to local members for a meet and greet.

[alestateyall (tommymorris)]

@denny

@Drewch

@denny

There isn’t a need for state level lobbying anyway, since homebrewing has been legal in all 50 states since 2013.

I disagree. It’s legal, yes. But there’s tremendous variation in what’s allowed (how much you can brew, how much you can have on hand, can it legally leave your home, etc, etc) in each state. There’s still work to be done at the state level.

I 100% agree!  Here in Virginia there is a constant struggle of where homebrew clubs can meet and competitions can be held.  The law seems to say that 2 oz pours can be served for evaluation or competition.  Some people think serving any homebrew at a brewery is not allowed.  If you ask the the ABC, they will pretty much always say that homebrewed beer is not allowed.  So some breweries and restaurants are okay with hosting clubs and competitions, some do not out of fear of loosing their license.

This is very much what happened here in OR and other states. Local clubs organized and lobbied state legislatures with help and support from the AHA. We got a state legislator (who happened to be a homebrewer) to write and introduce the bill. The AHA provided us with support and then Director Gary Glass came and testified.

When I lived in Mississippi this what happened to legalize homebrewing including Gary Glass coming and testifying. There was also a beer tasting  for legislators in Jackson (state capital) that Gary Glass attended. That was a fun party. We all served our beer.

PS. Gary tried my beer. I don’t think he liked it [emoji51] I was still relatively new to brewing.

[juliaherz]

@BrewBama

Julia,

I appreciate your response to concerns/suggestions. I support your efforts even though I probably don’t fully understand the level commitment and hard work you’ve undertaken.  Sounds like you have a ‘next level’ mentality that many will get behind.  It is encouraging.

I also appreciate your taking the time to communicate both here and thru local interactions.  Sounds like y’all are going to have fun in Chicago.  May I recommend starting something like a ‘where the hell is Julia going next’ thread to periodically update your dates and publish trip reports along with a few photos. I wish you well in your travels.

If you’re ever in N AL I hope to raise a pint together. Don’t be a stranger.

(BTW, love the ‘beer goggles’.)

Cheers! — Dwain

Dwain, GENIUS, on a where am I going next thread. Will institute ASAP. Yes on next of next. The future is what I’m focused on while we learn from the past. Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts and getting this discussion going. Also, I’ll DM to discuss more on your area and when there might be an opportunity to come visit.

[denny]

This getting uncomfortably close to political.