I’d be interested to see how a beer did if you brewed a good APA. Dropped in a few drops of sinamar and bottled it as an AAA, put in a some more and called it an ABA. To me a beer style should be dictated by more than just a bit different colour (see CDA…) but I’m no beer judge. I have a good beer that I was going to enter as an AAA but it’s not citrusy. I’ll probably do it anyway and see what happens but it does frustrate me a bit.
It’d probably do poorly. Nobody says an ABA has to be really hoppy, we are just saying that “American” has come to mean citrus hops. They should still be used at the appropriate rates for the style. Yes the ABA an be as high as 40IBU and an APA can be as low as 30IBU, but it doesn’t mean they’ll do well in comps at these levels.
I agree 1000%. And I am a beer judge. Not that it matters.
I would say you could expand this discussion to include American Stout.
Question: How would perfect clones of Deschutes Obsidian Stout or Rogue Shakespeare Stout fair in competition as American Stout?
I think the feedback on these “classic examples” would very often include that they needed hops…
Agree? Disagree?
cheers–
–Michael
Not Rogue, they lay on the hops. I think Shakespeare is something like 60IBU. I might ding it for that.
I’m not sure how much weight a judge would give to the classic examples part of the guidelines.
Only DH mentioned low hop character as an issue…
As far as American brown ales go. We got a silver medal with an Am Brown in last year’s NHC. It was hopped with Willamette and Mt Hood and scored in the mid to high 30s in each round, but somehow rose to the top during the mini-BOS rounds. Don’t cave in to the American citrus hop bias for this style! You can make an award winning American brown without them.
Hmm, well, I guess my response would be that I said “very often”…and not very often will 4 Grandmaster Judges evaluate your American Brown/Stout in a competition…
and on a side note, I clearly need to get some fresher bottles of Shakespeare Stout so I can get some of these hops. A date, a date! My kingdom for a bottling date!
cheers–
–Michael
I think that this is because American malts tend to be drier and “breadier” than continental malts. Also, most American beer drinkers are coming to craft beer having first experienced thin-bodied, effervescent, rather dry light lagers. Lots of hops on top of relatively low malt flavor is less of a transition than chewy, sweet, multi-layered malt character. Also, to be honest, a sweetish, malt-forward style beer isn’t something you want to drink as a “lawnmower beer” on a hot day, and for most of the U.S. it gets damned hot for much of the year.
Even so, I don’t get the American love affair with citrusy and piney hops. I go for the English and Noble types myself.
Even though the ABA guidelines say as much, many judges just see “American” in the name and assume that means that the beer should taste like a West Coast double IPA. That’s wrong and it’s lazy judging. Instead, it’s more about the yeast and malt character and the balance of malt to hops.
But, as Anthony said, if you’re brewing for competition, you want to make a beer which the average judge will recognize as being distinctly American. Also, typically ABA tend to get judged last in the American Ale category. That means that many judges will be mentally comparing ABA to American Pale Ales whether they realized it or not.
In a world with more perfect BJCP style guidelines, APA would be its own category given its popularity. ABA and American Amber would be off in their own little niche, perhaps combined with the English Brown Ales.
We just had the discussion of where ABAs should be judged in the flight of American Ales in our last Central Indiana Alliance (CIA) of Beer Judges meeting. We came to the conclusion that ABA should be judged first. They are typically less aggressively hopped and the roast level is typically insignificant. In comparison to the hopping levels in American Pales, Ambers, and IPAs, they are more likely to be LESS indelible and leave the palate more available for further tasting.
It is fully understandable why a judge would assume that an American Brown Ale should have the hop character that is REQUIRED of every other American Ale style. The allowance for that character to not be present in the style guidelines is an anachronism. In my opinion, that allowance spreads this style too far and this suggests that another style division may need to be considered for hoppy brown ales that do not present American hop character. Its clear that a hoppy brown ale is not going to fit in one of the English Brown categories and another style is needed. Since that beer would not coordinate with the hallmark character of the American Ale category, it seems to me that this style could fall in the English Brown Ale category. Brown Bitter or some other name comes to mind.
I agree COMPLETELY.