absolutely for a homebrewer. im very unlikely to buy a large amount of basic style beer, when i can reliably make that at home. at the same time, i’m very, VERY unlikely to dedicate 5 gallons of brew to something like a sour cherry+gingerbread spice porter because even if its good… i don’t think i’d be able to drink 5 gallons of it.
i tried a green tea (matcha) lager recently that was horrible (though i think not necessarily the fault of the green tea by itself). i would be so annoyed to just have to dump 5 gallons of that.
i actually did find defatted peanut butter powder at a bulk product store near me. i bought some considering homebrewing and tasted it in a hot chocolate first. it was super bland even at a fairly large amount. yeah, probably PB extract, or potentially homemade via high ABV spirit with roasted peanuts or peanut butter added to it? then the oil skimmed off?
To play off this idea and other recent posts on the forum: what do you find yourself brewing these days? What’s driving recipe design? Has it changed over the course of the quarantine? What about in homebrewing writ large — have the kit makers seen a shift in what’s selling?
Occasionally I will try something new to get out of a rut, but mostly have the same stuff on tap that I always have because my family, neighbors, and I like them.
Might be a bit too late on this, but I saw in Hieronymus’ newsletter Pahto was a top 5 hop by itself (Pahto 5.2 million lb). How’s it being used? Is it just the latest and greatest bittering hop? That’s how I used my free sample from Homebrew con, is there a better use?
I know this is too late for the podcast and also really a side convo, but I actually spent a long time today pondering the concept of a “novelty beer” while running errands, some related to my first brew in several months and the maiden voyage of the hoist assembly for my Mash and Brew. (Time off – that’s a novelty!)
It’s unclear to me when any homebrew ingredient is a novelty. I don’t need someone to explain the style guidelines to me–I just read the new edition. I just think most homebrew is a novelty to begin with, whether we’re dialing in a clone SMASH or throwing in half the pantry into a one-off. Peanut butter is not that strange an adjunct to begin with, given that like oatmeal it is another common pantry item (even if in this case it’s being emulated with powder or flavoring). Peanut butter is also a natural complement to malty and/or roasty beers. I’ve had peanut butter beers that were, to my taste, absolutely delicious, and fully messaged “beer” to me. Not sure what I’m saying here, but IMO the world of homebrew benefits from an expansive interpretation.
+1. The correct answer. It’s really what “craft beer” is all about. And everyone knows it, whether they are willing to admit it or not.
Heck, If I wanted to just drink German lagers all the time, I’d just go right to the source and buy lagers from Germany. I don’t need a “craft” brewery for that.
My comments were mostly tongue in cheek and not intended to stir up any actual debate. So there’s that. On a deeper level 'novelty beers" are, in my experience, damaging the craft beer industry. People are more interested in beers that taste like dessert or “fantasy flavors” than they are in beers that taste like beer. It is also killing classic styles – Belgians and Saisons for instance. If it isn’t fruited, chocolated, candied, or something out of the normal it gets passed over. A “strawberry cheesecake IPA” will outsell a perfectly brewed English cask ale on a beer engine simply because of the novelty. The cask is the better beer but since it doesn’t;t get consumed in 2 or 3 days the majority of it gets dumped. This happens all the time.
I definitely have strong feelings about this. Doesn’t mean a brewer shouldn’t sell creative ideas or make wild-ass beers. It just means that I feel the public’s taste is changing … and not for the better. Seltzer’s, for instance. People expect flavors that they wouldn’t even encounter in nature or beers that taste like something you would get at Starbucks. And don’t get me started on Starbucks. I like real coffee …
Oh you got a debate whether you wanted one or not!
I certainly appreciate your comments on this, especially considering you are coming from the inside. And for the record, I’m not trying to be confrontational, and I agree with a lot of what you said…just not all of it.
You say people are more interested in drinking novelty beers than beers that taste like beer. Why do you think that is? I really have no idea, so I’m sincerely asking. Do they just not know any better? Is it simply because they exist? Do these beers give the average Beer Drinker something they lack from “beer that tastes like beer” (this “beer that tastes like beer” is a concept I have a hard time with, but let’s leave that aside”). Maybe, if they are making a special night out with friends, they would just like to try something different instead of drinking same old, same old. Maybe, if they are driving and only want one or two, they are going to opt for something they haven’t had before.
Hey, I’m with you. I would take a perfectly brewed English Cask Ale over just about anything. But I would also take a perfectly brewed novelty beer over a ho-hum cask ale just as easily. But I don’t get to decide what someone else would prefer or what someone else thinks is a perfectly brewed beer. That’s their decision.
Maybe novelty beers aren’t damaging the craft beer industry, maybe they are keeping it afloat in some backhanded way. It’s possible that there are just so many substandard craft brewers out there that their flaws are easily exposed when they try and do something “classic”. If I remember correctly, you are trying to save one of those brewers. Novelty beers would have been a great place to hide behind for that last guy, what with all those extra flavors. ;D
In the end, when I go to a craft brewery I’m going to try something old, something new, something that interests me. But I’ll return to the beers that I think are best, by MY definition of best and not the brewers, or the guidelines, or the beer drinking cognoscenti. I’ll forget the others.
Craft brewers are small brewers.
The hallmark of craft beer and craft brewers is innovation. Craft brewers interpret historic styles with unique twists and develop new styles that have no precedent.
Craft beer is generally made with traditional ingredients like malted barley; interesting and sometimes non-traditional ingredients are often added for distinctiveness.
Craft brewers tend to be very involved in their communities through philanthropy, product donations, volunteerism and sponsorship of events.
Craft brewers have distinctive, individualistic approaches to connecting with their customers.
Craft brewers maintain integrity by what they brew and their general independence, free from a substantial interest by a non-craft brewer.
Megary – i definitely don’t think it is confrontational and I actually see your point and I think that you are exactly right in the way you feel. I just feel I am right as well. And it might have something to do with the fact that I’m in my 50s and natural compelled to be conservative about somethings (<-- this is not intended to imply politics).
Personally, from a homebrew standpoint, I can’t drink a pint of peanut butter beer, let alone a 5 gallon keg of it. I could see maybe brewing a 1 gallon batch for the … lack of better words … novelty of it.
I have brewed a lot of different beers over the last 2 years (I’ve been brewing commercially for 11 years now). I have come around to brewing a lot of Hazy IPAs even though they aren’t my favorite. I brewed a Blackberry Jam Hazy IPA that got great reviews (and probably would have gone well with a peanut butter beer lol). I’ve even brewed seltzers!
i’m primed to do even more this upcoming year. But I feel like my job, as a craft brewer, is to educated people on beer and beer styles. It used to be easy to do this when offering up "gateway beers’ like blonde or Kölsch, then moving them up to more interesting styles. Now you better have a novelty beer that the kids want or your pub will look like a retirement village.
Another gripe I have is that my brewing philosophy has always been that I want to brew a beer so good that the you finish the glass you want another one of that beer you just drank. I don’t feel like most novelty beers are able to do that. In fact, a lot of them are one and done.
There is a local craft brewer near me that has two brewers - both are Siebel and German trained. They focus on traditional lagers, British Bitters, a few Saison styles and an IPA or two. They sell ciders from a local cidery and a small selection of mass-produced seltzers. I am so pleased with their approach, as I typically have a cask ale and a couple low ABV lagers when I visit - occasionally taking a small pour of a specialty offering. They epitomize craft brewing to me and their traditional lagers are appearing in better beer bars in the region.
That’s the kind of pub i want to drink in. I’ll also add if you want to see if a brewery is any good try their blonde or Kolsch or whatever light beer they have … not their novelty beer.
My intention is not to stir up debate, either, just responding to a thread that seemed to be singling out an adjunct that I felt worth advocating for (given that this is a forum for an association of homebrewers, who often care about such things).
Is there actual evidence that extreme examples of fruit-flavored beers are the downfall of Belgians, Saisons, and cask beer? Decades ago, Belgian and Saison beers were scarce to be found in this country. Now I can think of four brewpubs within two miles of me that usually have both styles. As for cask ales, they are wonderful, but in this era, by any definition a novelty – and again the fact we can find them anywhere at all (none in my area, sadly) speaks to the changes for the better. When I did live near a brewery that sold cask ale, you had to get there pretty fast to not find it sold out. Similarly, our local vaguely-British pub carries La Chouffe but again, if I wait til Sunday I will find myself drinking something else (though I can usually find a Belgian golden on tap at another brewery nearby).
And again, from the measurement of what is “out of the normal,” peanut butter feels within the normal zone, while strawberry cheesecake feels like an extreme example–but that’s strictly personal. Per a quick Google search, there are definitely examples of strawberry cheesecake beer out there, but I’m guessing these microbrewery examples aren’t having a huge impact on the industry.
I feel that way about most lagers and about Saison and Belgian Golden Strong – they make good indexes for a brewery. So many times I ask for a taste of a Belgian Golden Strong and don’t follow up with a glass because it’s too malty or sweet (or heaven forfend, too hoppy). And for the record, you couldn’t make me taste a peanut butter flavored Belgian Golden Strong!
For the record, I will not be brewing a keg of Peanut Butter Porter either. But I can definitely make it through a pint of a good one, and they do exist. I guess that’s part of my point…when I visit a Craft Brewery, since I’m not there to get drunk on Cask Ale, I’m more likely to try something out of the ordinary. Now if that Craft Brewery happened to move a short walk down the street, well… I reserve the right to change my mind.
And I’m in my 50’s as well, and naturally compelled to pretend I’m not.
