Wow, you guys are turning everything I thought I knew about brewing on it’s head. Should I throw out my books and what I’ve learned in them? At 170° aren’t you worried about astringency? For no sparge do you just put your total boil volume plus grain absorbtion into your MT? Gentle boil ever give you issues with DMS?
Pardon my ignorance, it just seems like these things go against everything I’ve read.
Actually yes – a lot of what was written in the big fancy books has been proven wrong in the past 5-10 years. Books are out of date the minute they are published.
Okay so what should I read/study to stay up to date and well informed, so as to avoid being made a fool of when I give what I had thought is sound advice?
Yep, there’s a lot of bad, or at least 50 years outdated, information that has been perpetuated in homebrew books and such. On specifics, let’s see. Boiling decoctions doesn’t cause astringency problems, so 170°F won’t either. DMS is not even a problem except with the occasional extra pale Pilsner malt, and even those are manufactured to minimize SMM (the precursor.) It takes at least 30 minutes on heat to convert SMM, if it is even there, to DMS. Then just a short uncovered boil will drive it off. A gentle, circulating simmer with the lid on is far less damaging to wort. And so on. Like Jim’s point on not sweating the trub removal. Lots of stuff had validity once, but either materials have changed, or brewing science has advanced and debunked old assumptions and practices. There are great resources to stay on top of things at least, like the forum for one! There are also podcasts, websites, professional textbooks (newer ones at least)… But this forum is always eye opening and a good start. Like right now.
Online is the place to be. Right here right now is a good place to start. And homebrewtalk.com as well. And maybe Brulosophy.com. The best thing to do always, of course, is to run your own experiments, learn from your own experiences, and thus become educated on stuff yourself, since there is so very much that remains debatable and contentious everywhere you go. The hobby as a whole continues to evolve on a daily basis, literally. I’m learning new stuff all the time, otherwise I wouldn’t be here. Some might think that after 19 years and roughly 160 batches homebrewing, and being online for almost that whole time, and reading tons of books, that I’d know everything about everything. False. I don’t. And neither does anyone else. But if you can keep up with the joneses online, you’ll be better off than most.
Cheers.
Thanks man. I brew A LOT. Sometimes twice a week. I read everything I can get my hands on. I’ve been brewing for 10 years now. I’d never claim to know everything, or even a fraction of what I want to. I think that’s what keeps me going. But in my experiences, I’ve never had a protein rest destroy my head. But I only use it for my Weissen which is 50% wheat anyway. Thanks for the info. I guess I have to be more active on the forums. Do you know of any science journals involving brewing that would be good to read?
Let’s talk about this protein-rest-killing foam-thing. The last weissbier I brewed was held at 114° for some time. Now that’s upper acid, lower protein rest territory. The grist was wheat and Weyermann pils malt. Foam for days. Is the thought that the wheat overcomes any foam damage by the low rest?
Do you step mash? I think many people who advise against the protein rest are right but are also single infusers.
I guess we got a bit off topic. I’m just wondering why I’ve never ever had a head problem, even when using a protein rest.
What is your typical mash schedule?
It really depends on what I’m making but I guess mostly a single infusion no mashout sparge. If I’m making my Weissen it’s a triple decoction mash. 112°, 122°, 149°
IMA, astringent is a function of pH, not temp
Just a heads up, I took your advice and have been looking this information up. I found a Brulosophy exBeeriment suggesting that a protein rest does not have a negative effect on your head retention even given highly modified grains.
http://brulosophy.com/2018/09/10/the-mash-protein-rest-vs-single-infusion-exbeeriment-results/
I see a couple of problems with this xBmt right off. One, it’s a wheat beer. Special case, not a legitimate test subject. Two, the summary of the effects of a protein rest is incomplete and inaccurate. I’m not sure he understood how it works or what he should be testing. In brief, a “protein rest” is not just one thing. Between 113°-127°F, proteinase is favored, reducing body- and foam-positive proteins and polypeptides to peptides and amino acids, necessary for yeast nutrition in worts made with large amounts of unmalted adjuncts. Between 130°-140°F peptidase is favored, reducing proteins to polypeptides, which are crucial to body and foam. But even this rest can be detrimental with a malt that has already had the proteins adequately modified in malting, because the polypeptides will ultimately be reduced to aminos anyway. So a proper experiment might use the Rahr two-row he used, but without the wheat. It might compare 3 different temperature programs. And science and experience say the result would be rather different.
Brulosophy’s experience is not consistent with my own. But it’s data! And in their case, it’s presented in a nice clean way for all to see. However those guys will admit they’re not the end-all be-all either, and neither am I, of course. All good stuff to consider anyway.
Cheers.