Dealing with Protein/Chill Haze

[pmorrissette (Phil_M)]

@erockrph

Are you specifically trying to avoid fining agents and fix this from a process standpoint? If not, then give polyclar a shot.

That’s the idea. If I can fix my issues with process improvements I find that preferable to having another ingredient to stock.

@narvin

Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time… the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I’d also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

Conquer Chill Haze - Brew Your Own

Cold crashing isn’t always an option, (cask) but I think I’ll try your advice on kettle finings/hot break separation. This seems the lowest hanging fruit to get out of the way first.

If I ever drop the cash on my idea for a “yorkshire square” style fermentor a double drop is part of the plan. (Temporary fermentation vessel to allow all the cold break to settle out, prior to transferring to the primary vessel.)

[Philbrew]

If I ever drop the cash on my idea for a “yorkshire square” style fermentor a double drop is part of the plan. (Temporary fermentation vessel to allow all the cold break to settle out, prior to transferring to the primary vessel.)

Sh*t…why didn’t I think of that!

[zwiller]

@narvin

Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time… the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I’d also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

Conquer Chill Haze - Brew Your Own

I personally think BTB is for adjunct swill and not all malt beers.  I’d try polyclar/PVPP (with whirlfloc) in the boil. 10m to KO.  Whilfloc+polyclar=polyclar brewbrite.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktpKsLH62nU  I predict you will be shocked.

[stpug]

@zwiller

@narvin

Any beer benefits from cold conditioning time… the colder, the better (within reason).  Without that, it is hard to coagulate and drop out chill haze.

I’d also suggest you try kettle finings again and try to separate the hot break completely from the fermenter.  Chill haze is caused by excess proteins and polyphenols in the beer.  Brewtan B is another thing to play around with, since tannins (polyphenols) help to precipitate proteins as well.

Conquer Chill Haze - Brew Your Own

I personally think BTB is for adjunct swill and not all malt beers.  I’d try polyclar/PVPP (with whirlfloc) in the boil. 10m to KO.  Whilfloc+polyclar=polyclar brewbrite.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktpKsLH62nU  I predict you will be shocked.

Dosage: 10-25 g/hl

Do you know the approximate ratio of whirlfloc to PVPP in Polyclar BrewBrite? 50/50?

[homoeccentricus]

According to http://www.generalfiltration.com/assets/uploads/Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf PVPP = 75%.

[blatz]

phil

I have generally crystal clear beers across the board with no fining or filtering;  I made a strong ale early last year, all MO with some DH carafa for color and despite a year plus in the keg, AND gelatin, its still murky.

I think its the MO.

[stpug]

@homoeccentricus

According to http://www.generalfiltration.com/assets/uploads/Polyclar_Brewbrite.pdf PVPP = 75%.

Very good, thank you!  I think I’ll mix some up for a future batch since I’ve got both parts.

2-5 grams Brewbrite per 5.25 gallons
26% Whirlfloc
74% PVPP/Polyclar

[hopfenundmalz]

@Philbrew

If I ever drop the cash on my idea for a “yorkshire square” style fermentor a double drop is part of the plan. (Temporary fermentation vessel to allow all the cold break to settle out, prior to transferring to the primary vessel.)

Sh*t…why didn’t I think of that!

The yeast are added to the first vessel, then the beer is dropped 12-18 hours later, and that gives the yeast more O2, along with the true being left behind.

Brakspear still does this. Fullers used to, and the have one set of those double drop tanks on display. I was surprised to see the bottom vessel was copper with copper attemperators.

[pmorrissette (Phil_M)]

British brewing certainly isn’t low O₂. Just look at the strike water and grist just pouring into the mash tun in the Michael Jackson video here:

Samuel Smith - Merchant du Vin

Not to mention all the copper, and that the beer isn’t racked to cask in a closed transfer. For those who are averse to low oxygen methods, I think there is a LOT to be learned, and easily implemented, from the Brits.

[hopfenundmalz]

British brewing certainly isn’t low O₂. Just look at the strike water and grist just pouring into the mash tun in the Michael Jackson video here:

Samuel Smith - Merchant du Vin

Not to mention all the copper, and that the beer isn’t racked to cask in a closed transfer. For those who are averse to low oxygen methods, I think there is a LOT to be learned, and easily implemented, from the Brits.

Oh yes, cask ale matures with the air in the cask. Cask ale lovers will debate if the ale is best on day 2 or 3, but not after 3.

Many British Breweries are Victorian in technology, but not all. Many German breweries are modern technological wonders, but not all.

[bayareabrewer]

@hopfenundmalz

British brewing certainly isn’t low O₂. Just look at the strike water and grist just pouring into the mash tun in the Michael Jackson video here:

Samuel Smith - Merchant du Vin

Not to mention all the copper, and that the beer isn’t racked to cask in a closed transfer. For those who are averse to low oxygen methods, I think there is a LOT to be learned, and easily implemented, from the Brits.

Oh yes, cask ale matures with the air in the cask. Cask ale lovers will debate if the ale is best on day 2 or 3, but not after 3.

Many British Breweries are Victorian in technology, but not all. Many German breweries are modern technological wonders, but not all.

and somehow they are all capable of making world class beer.

[pmorrissette (Phil_M)]

@hopfenundmalz

Oh yes, cask ale matures with the air in the cask. Cask ale lovers will debate if the ale is best on day 2 or 3, but not after 3.

Many British Breweries are Victorian in technology, but not all. Many German breweries are modern technological wonders, but not all.

Very true. Though not British, Guinness is a good example of a “British-ish” beer that’s brewed low oxygen. Though I still don’t have proof, Pilsner Urquell might not be low oxygen. To me the trick is to pick whichever application best suits the “beer in your head”, so to speak.

[QuaffableQuips (Dave Carpenter)]

OP, are you hitting your OG and FG numbers as expected? I had an issue with haze several years ago that turned out to be a thermometer that was out of calibration. Gave me low numbers and a good deal of haze.

[pmorrissette (Phil_M)]

OP, are you hitting your OG and FG numbers as expected? I had an issue with haze several years ago that turned out to be a thermometer that was out of calibration. Gave me low numbers and a good deal of haze.

This was my second brew with my SS Brewtech mash tun, so no I haven’t yet. First beer was way under target preboil gravity, this particular one was four points over.

FWIW, the beer is now clear, but showing the signs of too much oxidation. (from a cask perspective, it’s still fine compared to the Stone IPA for sale down the street…)

I’m going to use whirfloc next time and try and keep as much trub out of the bulk of primary and see where that gets me.