fining with gelatin-impact or not on head

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

I wonder about the dose of gelatin, too. I use a tsp and honestly don’t notice any effect to foam, but do notice a slight loss of late hop character (which I account for by bumping up hop amounts where needed.). I plan to do a split batch to test out soon.

[wort-h.o.g]

I wonder about the dose of gelatin, too. I use a tsp and honestly don’t notice any effect to foam, but do notice a slight loss of late hop character (which I account for by bumping up hop amounts where needed.). I plan to do a split batch to test out soon.

was just recently talking/thinking about that very thing Jon. The question is-can you over fine a beer to its detriment? whirlfloc, then gelatin or other, whats the threshold to drop proteins, polyphenols, etc and NOT impact something in the beer …that’s what I’d like to evaluate and understand better. mostly just for my own understanding and curiosity.

EDIT: here’s something I read on BYO: "Removing all the proteins from your wort or beer is not advisable.  A beer without any proteins would be bland and lack a head. Just as there are haze-forming proteins, there are essential head-forming proteins. Even though Irish moss and silica gel preferentially remove haze forming proteins, they can also remove foam-active proteins. Any fining procedure needs to strike a balance between removing enough protein to reduce haze, without removing so much protein that foam stability and mouthfeel
is affected. "

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

I wonder about the dose of gelatin, too. I use a tsp and honestly don’t notice any effect to foam, but do notice a slight loss of late hop character (which I account for by bumping up hop amounts where needed.). I plan to do a split batch to test out soon.

was just recently talking/thinking about that very thing Jon. The question is-can you over fine a beer to its detriment? whirlfloc, then gelatin or other, whats the threshold to drop proteins, polyphenols, etc and NOT impact something in the beer …that’s what I’d like to evaluate and understand better. mostly just for my own understanding and curiosity.

EDIT: here’s something I read on BYO: "Removing all the proteins from your wort or beer is not advisable.  A beer without any proteins would be bland and lack a head. Just as there are haze-forming proteins, there are essential head-forming proteins. Even though Irish moss and silica gel preferentially remove haze forming proteins, they can also remove foam-active proteins. Any fining procedure needs to strike a balance between removing enough protein to reduce haze, without removing so much protein that foam stability and mouthfeel
is affected. "

Yeah, I think there’s definitely a threshold. I remember Keith posted that even using too much whirlfloc could affect head retention. I always used a whole one for convenience but I backed off to a half tab (1 tab is supposedly good for 12 gallons of beer). I may back off a bit on the gelatin incrementally - the bare minimum that gets the beer clear is all you need anyway. I don’t use it on every style as is.

[wort-h.o.g]

I wonder about the dose of gelatin, too. I use a tsp and honestly don’t notice any effect to foam, but do notice a slight loss of late hop character (which I account for by bumping up hop amounts where needed.). I plan to do a split batch to test out soon.

was just recently talking/thinking about that very thing Jon. The question is-can you over fine a beer to its detriment? whirlfloc, then gelatin or other, whats the threshold to drop proteins, polyphenols, etc and NOT impact something in the beer …that’s what I’d like to evaluate and understand better. mostly just for my own understanding and curiosity.

EDIT: here’s something I read on BYO: "Removing all the proteins from your wort or beer is not advisable.  A beer without any proteins would be bland and lack a head. Just as there are haze-forming proteins, there are essential head-forming proteins. Even though Irish moss and silica gel preferentially remove haze forming proteins, they can also remove foam-active proteins. Any fining procedure needs to strike a balance between removing enough protein to reduce haze, without removing so much protein that foam stability and mouthfeel
is affected. "

Yeah, I think there’s definitely a threshold. I remember Keith posted that even using too much whirlfloc could affect head retention. I always used a whole one for convenience but I backed off to a half tab (1 tab is supposedly good for 12 gallons of beer). I may back off a bit on the gelatin incrementally - the bare minimum that gets the beer clear is all you need anyway. I don’t use it on every style as is.

1/2 whirlfloc at last 10 minutes is what I use also.

[beersk]

Here’s a couple that were fined with gelatin, head was not affected, but my theory still stands that you can over-fine the beer and lose out on body and mouth feel. I was using 1T in 200mL of water heated to 155-165F in a mason jar. The Oktoberfest was killer, but maybe lost out on body because of the finings. The Dort was too sweet. Troubleshooting that with my light lagers…

Pumpkin spiced Oktoberfest from last fall:

Dortmunder:

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

Foam looks terrific. How much gelatin do you use out of curiosity?

Edit - Sorry didn’t see it, 1 tbsp?

[beersk]

Yeah 1 tablespoon, which seems like a lot every time I do it. I plan to scale it back, starting with 1/2 teaspoon and definitely using RO water.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

I can vouch that 1 tsp clears beer nicely, and I may scale back a tad, to see where the clarity falls off. I think 1 tsp is a non-issue, except on beers with a lot of late hop character. I don’t notice a loss of body. Still want to try less though.

[beersk]

I can vouch that 1 tsp clears beer nicely, and I may scale back a tad, to see where the clarity falls off. I think 1 tsp is a non-issue, except on beers with a lot of late hop character. I don’t notice a loss of body. Still want to try less though.

Yeah, I was using triple the amount you use. There could be something to that…

[wort-h.o.g]

@beersk

Yeah 1 tablespoon, which seems like a lot every time I do it. I plan to scale it back, starting with 1/2 teaspoon and definitely using RO water.

Any kettle fining Jesse?

[beersk]

@beersk

Yeah 1 tablespoon, which seems like a lot every time I do it. I plan to scale it back, starting with 1/2 teaspoon and definitely using RO water.

Any kettle fining Jesse?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No kettle fining. Mainly because I agitate the chiller and it would negate that anyway.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

Ken, how much gelatin do you use?

[wort-h.o.g]

1/2 whirlfloc, and 1 teaspoon.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

1/2 whirlfloc, and 1 teaspoon.

Same.

[Philbrew]

1/2 whirlfloc, and 1 teaspoon.

Same.

In what batch size (vol. in ferm.)?

[wort-h.o.g]

@Philbrew

1/2 whirlfloc, and 1 teaspoon.

Same.

In what batch size (vol. in ferm.)?

for about 5.5-6gal wort in carboy…depending.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@Philbrew

1/2 whirlfloc, and 1 teaspoon.

Same.

In what batch size (vol. in ferm.)?

5.5 gallons to fermenter

[Philbrew]

@Philbrew

1/2 whirlfloc, and 1 teaspoon.

Same.

In what batch size (vol. in ferm.)?

OK.  I’ve been using a whole whirlfloc for 5.5 gal.  I’ll have to try 1/2 tablet.

Also, I’ve been using 1/2 teaspoon gelatin and getting brilliant beer.

5.5 gallons to fermenter

[crakers540]

FWIT - I used to use gelatin in my secondary fermentor.  I quit using it and the head on my beers (brewed from extract and adjuncts) became much more creamy and lasted much longer.