I want to brew an Altbier

[hopfenundmalz]

@mabrungard

I’ve brewed at both ends of the malt bill spectrum and I have to say that neither grist is correct. With a very high proportion of Munich malt, the beer is too richly malty. I just brewed the recipe that Denny posted which is at the all Pils end of the spectrum and have to say that its fine, but it needs just a bit of Munich to add to the depth of malt flavor. I’m guessing that about 25% light Munich might meet the depth I expect.

There is what would be a conundrum for competitions. Brew the recipe, or brew with some Munich malt to meet judges expectations?
A Grand Master II judge we know said that when she toured Uerige, they talked of a complex mash schedule they use with many decoctions. That might be why a little Munich helps reach what people think it should be.

[PORTERHAUS]

@hopfenundmalz

Alta are easy drinkers, malt flavor is bready and shouldn’t be caramelly, low to no hop aroma and flavor, bitter finish that makes you want more. Clean fermentation, low esters. German malts and hops are key to the style, along with a clean ale yeast that can work in the high 50s F. They should also be lagered for 3-4 weeks at 40F.

The Duesseldorf Alts are from smaller breweries, essentially brewpubs. Alts do not travel well, so few have had a good example. There are commercial examples that are distributed in Germany, such as Diebels and Frankenheimer, that are too caramelly for me.

I’m not sure of the notion that the Northern style is more popular.

In Duesseldorf, there are differences between the breweries Altbiers. Some have a Munich malt flavor in the background, some do not. They all have a firm bitter finish. Zum Uerige has an intensely bitter finish, and is my favorite. The Jamil and Gordon recipes might make something close to Schumacher or Diebels, but not like Uerige.

The Uerige recipe just posted is old, I have brewed it. Water treatment is something I am still working on. The bitterness is high, but does not linger long when you have it fresh at the pub.

Thanks for that info.

[hopfenundmalz]

@PORTERHAUS

@hopfenundmalz

Alta are easy drinkers, malt flavor is bready and shouldn’t be caramelly, low to no hop aroma and flavor, bitter finish that makes you want more. Clean fermentation, low esters. German malts and hops are key to the style, along with a clean ale yeast that can work in the high 50s F. They should also be lagered for 3-4 weeks at 40F.

The Duesseldorf Alts are from smaller breweries, essentially brewpubs. Alts do not travel well, so few have had a good example. There are commercial examples that are distributed in Germany, such as Diebels and Frankenheimer, that are too caramelly for me.

I’m not sure of the notion that the Northern style is more popular.

In Duesseldorf, there are differences between the breweries Altbiers. Some have a Munich malt flavor in the background, some do not. They all have a firm bitter finish. Zum Uerige has an intensely bitter finish, and is my favorite. The Jamil and Gordon recipes might make something close to Schumacher or Diebels, but not like Uerige.

The Uerige recipe just posted is old, I have brewed it. Water treatment is something I am still working on. The bitterness is high, but does not linger long when you have it fresh at the pub.

Thanks for that info.

You are welcome.

I have lost several afternoons in Düsseldorf, never to find them.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@hopfenundmalz

I have lost several afternoons in Düsseldorf, never to find them.

That is one of the items on my beer travel bucket list.   

[PORTERHAUS]

@hopfenundmalz

@PORTERHAUS

@hopfenundmalz

Alta are easy drinkers, malt flavor is bready and shouldn’t be caramelly, low to no hop aroma and flavor, bitter finish that makes you want more. Clean fermentation, low esters. German malts and hops are key to the style, along with a clean ale yeast that can work in the high 50s F. They should also be lagered for 3-4 weeks at 40F.

The Duesseldorf Alts are from smaller breweries, essentially brewpubs. Alts do not travel well, so few have had a good example. There are commercial examples that are distributed in Germany, such as Diebels and Frankenheimer, that are too caramelly for me.

I’m not sure of the notion that the Northern style is more popular.

In Duesseldorf, there are differences between the breweries Altbiers. Some have a Munich malt flavor in the background, some do not. They all have a firm bitter finish. Zum Uerige has an intensely bitter finish, and is my favorite. The Jamil and Gordon recipes might make something close to Schumacher or Diebels, but not like Uerige.

The Uerige recipe just posted is old, I have brewed it. Water treatment is something I am still working on. The bitterness is high, but does not linger long when you have it fresh at the pub.

Thanks for that info.

You are welcome.

I have lost several afternoons in Düsseldorf, never to find them.

Even better would be enjoying it from those awesome little glasses.

[dmtaylor (Dave Taylor)]

Here’s my recipe that scored a 45 in competition (personally I don’t think it was THAT great but maybe deserves high 30s).  Note: Only reason Hallertau hops are listed twice is because I used two different kinds, pellet & leaf, with different alphas.  The rest of you’s can just use a single charge.  Another note: This is a 1/3 batch size.  Multiply everything by 3 if you want 5 gallons.

[PORTERHAUS]

I see the Zum Uerige recipe mentioned a lot in the search but I have yet to come across THE recipe…can someone point me to that?

Edit*…Or at least which version is best.

[denny]

@PORTERHAUS

I see the Zum Uerige recipe mentioned a lot in the search but I have yet to come across THE recipe…can someone point me to that?

Edit*…Or at least which version is best.

The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
    .15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
    1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
    .7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
    .46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
    1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

[hopfenundmalz]

@PORTERHAUS

@hopfenundmalz

@PORTERHAUS

@hopfenundmalz

Alta are easy drinkers, malt flavor is bready and shouldn’t be caramelly, low to no hop aroma and flavor, bitter finish that makes you want more. Clean fermentation, low esters. German malts and hops are key to the style, along with a clean ale yeast that can work in the high 50s F. They should also be lagered for 3-4 weeks at 40F.

The Duesseldorf Alts are from smaller breweries, essentially brewpubs. Alts do not travel well, so few have had a good example. There are commercial examples that are distributed in Germany, such as Diebels and Frankenheimer, that are too caramelly for me.

I’m not sure of the notion that the Northern style is more popular.

In Duesseldorf, there are differences between the breweries Altbiers. Some have a Munich malt flavor in the background, some do not. They all have a firm bitter finish. Zum Uerige has an intensely bitter finish, and is my favorite. The Jamil and Gordon recipes might make something close to Schumacher or Diebels, but not like Uerige.

The Uerige recipe just posted is old, I have brewed it. Water treatment is something I am still working on. The bitterness is high, but does not linger long when you have it fresh at the pub.

Thanks for that info.

You are welcome.

I have lost several afternoons in Düsseldorf, never to find them.

Even better would be enjoying it from those awesome little glasses.

The Stange in Düsseldorf are .25 liter. After a bunch of those, you count the tic marks, and say I had that much! Then it is time for a nap.

Stange translates to rod or cylinder, which those do resemble.

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

@denny

@PORTERHAUS

I see the Zum Uerige recipe mentioned a lot in the search but I have yet to come across THE recipe…can someone point me to that?

Edit*…Or at least which version is best.

The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
    .15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
    1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
    .7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
    .46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
    1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

Did he recommend a specific yeast?

[hopfenundmalz]

@denny

@PORTERHAUS

I see the Zum Uerige recipe mentioned a lot in the search but I have yet to come across THE recipe…can someone point me to that?

Edit*…Or at least which version is best.

The recipe comes from Dr. Frank Hebmuller, brewmaster at Uerige.  Here’s something I wrote on B&V years ago…

Water can be relatively hard with a high carbonate level.  Malt is based on well modified pils, with a bit of caramel malt and a bit of “chocolate roasted wheat malt”.  Mash schedule has rests at 125, 144, 158, and 169 (mashout). Boil time is 60-70 min. Mittelfruh, Perle, or Spalt are the preferred hops. Aroma hop addition is about 25% of the total hop amount. Add aroma hops no earlier than 20 min. before flameout. OG is 1.044-1.052. Primary between 59-68F. Secondary at 50F. Then condition at 32F for 14 days. FG should be 1.008-1.014. 4.3-5.5% ABV Here’s the recipe he gives for 5 gal. …

5.9 lb. Pils malt
    .15 lb. Caramel malt (e.g. Weyermann Caramunich)
    1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted malt (e.g. weyermann Carafa Spezial Type 1)
    .7 oz. Hallertau Mittlefruh - 6.5% - 60 min.
    .46 oz. Perele - 7.5% - 60 min.
    1.11 oz. Spalt - 5% - 20 min.

Did he recommend a specific yeast?

Wyeast 1007 is the Uerige yeast.

[denny]

The Zum Uerige yeast, of course!  WY1007.

[chumley]

Denny tweaked that recipe.  It is actually 1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted wheat malt.

I’m not one to stand by and let revisionist posts go unchallenged.  ;D

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

@denny

The Zum Uerige yeast, of course!  WY1007.

Any idea how 1007 compares to the K-97?

[hopfenundmalz]

@denny

The Zum Uerige yeast, of course!  WY1007.

Any idea how 1007 compares to the K-97?

K-97 sounds similar. I have never used it, so if someone has and says no, listen to them.

[dmtaylor (Dave Taylor)]

@hopfenundmalz

K-97 sounds similar. I have never used it, so if someone has and says no, listen to them.

From what I’ve read, they are identical, one and the same.  However I’ve not tried the K-97 yet to know for sure.

[goschman (Iliff Ave)]

@dmtaylor

@hopfenundmalz

K-97 sounds similar. I have never used it, so if someone has and says no, listen to them.

From what I’ve read, they are identical, one and the same.  However I’ve not tried the K-97 yet to know for sure.

This is my impression as well. I have used K97 but not 1007 so I have the opposite problem.

[denny]

@chumley

Denny tweaked that recipe.  It is actually 1.34 oz. Chocolate Roasted wheat malt.

I’m not one to stand by and let revisionist posts go unchallenged.  ;D

Good on ya, chumley!

[denny]

@dmtaylor

@hopfenundmalz

K-97 sounds similar. I have never used it, so if someone has and says no, listen to them.

From what I’ve read, they are identical, one and the same.  However I’ve not tried the K-97 yet to know for sure.

I believe they likely have the same origin, but like any 2 yeasts, there are differences…or at least that’s what I found in my single use of K97.  K97 seemed just a bit fruitier and not as dry as 1007.

[rookie_l_a (Steve Ruch)]

@denny

I believe they likely have the same origin, but like any 2 yeasts, there are differences…or at least that’s what I found in my single use of K97.  K97 seemed just a bit fruitier and not as dry as 1007.

I brewed an alt back on Thursday using it. Sometime next week I’ll take a gravity reading and give it a taste, although it’s been a really long time since I brewed this recipe with the 1007 and even at the best of times I’m not a great note taker so I’ll be relying on only memory for comparison.