This is just semantics. Clone has become the acceptable term for recipes based on commercial beers. Maybe it was the wrong choice back in the day when somebody first used it, but can’t change it now.
Maybe for you it is similar to guesstimate for me. I would like to kick every user of guesstimate in the groin, but it’s becoming an acceptable part of be vernacular.
This is just semantics. Clone has become the acceptable term for recipes based on commercial beers. Maybe it was the wrong choice back in the day when somebody first used it, but can’t change it now.
Maybe for you it is similar to guesstimate for me. I would like to kick every user of guesstimate in the groin, but it’s becoming an acceptable part of be vernacular.
This is just semantics. Clone has become the acceptable term for recipes based on commercial beers. Maybe it was the wrong choice back in the day when somebody first used it, but can’t change it now.
Maybe for you it is similar to guesstimate for me. I would like to kick every user of guesstimate in the groin, but it’s becoming an acceptable part of be vernacular.
This is just semantics. Clone has become the acceptable term for recipes based on commercial beers. Maybe it was the wrong choice back in the day when somebody first used it, but can’t change it now.
Maybe for you it is similar to guesstimate for me. I would like to kick every user of guesstimate in the groin, but it’s becoming an acceptable part of be vernacular.
This is just semantics. Clone has become the acceptable term for recipes based on commercial beers. Maybe it was the wrong choice back in the day when somebody first used it, but can’t change it now.
Maybe for you it is similar to guesstimate for me. I would like to kick every user of guesstimate in the groin, but it’s becoming an acceptable part of be vernacular.
Hey Stevie-
Wrong holiday. Today’s Easter, not Groundhog day!
Acceptable to whom? Not me.
Accepted by the masses? Most of the brewing related publications? I get that you don’t like the way it is used, but it’s not changing.
Tess and Mark’s book came out in 1998, but I’m sure it has been used much longer than that. Did you voice your option on HBD back then?
Something is up with tapatalk. I keep getting errors when commenting, but apparently is posts.
Nope, I didn’t. Back then I was naive enough to think that you could clone a beer.
You can; I’ve done it. JZ had a whole podcast about it in fact.
Then you’re a much better brewer than I or most homebrewers. Even with all my years and batches of experience, I can’t clone a beer. I can make something like it, maybe close to it, but I’ve never exactly hit an exact duplicate. I really doubt Jamil can either.
I’m with Denny on this. Clone is a poor choice of words, because it means exact genetic copy of the original. Unless you are growing a beer from the base beer’s embryo, it isn’t going to happen.
I thought that I would stay away from this conversation.
But here it goes. I wonder if I could clone one of Lazy Monk’s beers.
I know the recipe, I know exact grain what they are using and I have access to it. I even can get the same hops and use the same water.
If I make it home I do not think it will be the same. As a matter of fact a couple of years ago I went the other way and beer were nothing like.
So no you can not make the same beer. Just make good beer.
I agree clone is a bad choice of words because we can’t achieve the dictionary definition of clone. Replicate is actually closer to our goal and of course we can’t achieve that either.
However, I also agree clone is the commonly used word in this context. Words have many definitions. In our context, I guess clone means to attempt to replicate another beer.
Seems to me that even Pro-brewers have enough of a challenge maintaining the consistency of their own product.
And to think: an exact genetic copy is by no means insurance that the clone will turn out the same as the original. Despite being genetically identical.
The modern English definition of the word clone has both precise and imprecise meaning:
Imprecise:
Used as a verb:
To produce a product that closely resembles or make an imitation of
(e.g. I’m going to produce an imitation (clone) of this beer.)
Used as a noun:
Something that imitates or closely resembles another
(e.g. I’ve made a beer that closely resembles (clones) the original.)
Precise:
Used as a verb:
To produce an exact copy of
(e.g. I’m going to clone (produce an exact copy of) this beer.)
Used as a noun:
Something that exactly copies another
(e.g. I’ve made a beer that clones (exactly copies) the original.)
Is “clone” a poor choice of words? Not necessarily as many words in the English language have this duplicity. The reason it was chosen for the book is to instill confidence in would be buyers that they’re getting faithful replications (i.e. Marketing). A lot of thesis have been written about this conundrum and the selecting of precise/imprecise words and whether or not they should be replaced with more precise phrases.
Many movies features “clones” which are corrupted or influenced in some way veering them away from the “exact copy.”
In the fields of engineering, computer science and genetics the word “clone” most often implies perfection (that doesn’t mean it really turns out perfect), however, in most other fields the common acceptance is the imprecise definition. This is also implied in baking/cooking when one asks for another’s recipe the result is generally not one of perfection.
I guess you CAN clone a post.
And this whole thread has become a clone
For those of you contacting me concerning the Schlitz logs; Please stop. I will not share them.
I have shared them with a few people over the years that I have confidence in concerning their integrity and the fact that they will keep the information confidential.
Thanks