I don’t want to derail but if the issue that turns people off is the all-or-nothing aspect, I suggest you test any or all of the steps separately. My humble two cents:
I haven’t yet gotten Brewtan to test but I do see an improvement in lagering time from a) preboiling and using 60ppm smb in the mash water, and b) using pvpp in the whirlpool. My aim was to prevent the formation of polyphenols, or precipitate them, which aging usually does for me but gelatin does not. I still have a copper pick up tube and didn’t keg until fermentation was 90% done, but I do push out of my stainless fermenter using CO2 into kegs purged by pushing out sanitizer.
I also noticed less darkening of the wort during boil. My kettle pH was 5.2, lower than normal 5.3-5.35, so I don’t know how much is attributable to that. If I did more rigorous test I’d look at the color of first runnings.
So, there are multiple poasible benefits. For what I need, part of the process may be enough. That being said, a traditional long lagering period has done well in the past, though it may not give you the modern “big brewer” taste if that is what you want. I’m also excited to try Brewtan because I’d really like to avoid lengthening the brewday unless it’s unavoidable.
The lower pH is 100% the cause of the SMB. At that dose rate you used you are at about .1 reduction. However, I don’t think you will see a color reduction from pH alone, well not in that range anyway. How was the flavor of the wort?
I want to revisit the sulfur issue. Am I correct in understanding that, until you dial in the amount of SMB needed for your system, you stand a decent chance of unpleasant levels of sulfur in the finished beers? I know that sulfur generally dissipates over time, but I’d rather not wait past the beers freshness peak to wait out sulfur. Do you feel this is due more to the dose or the lack of copper contact (ie., copper IC) or a combination of both? In the mean time (or maybe permanently), I’ll be using a copper IC, with Brewtan B and SMB, in the hopes that the Brewtan will offset the copper induced oxidation (which seems legit to me). We’ll see.
The wort was smooth. There was an excellent break, which I’ve had before when lowering pH, but not always. This fest bier was on the low end of IBUs so I didn’t expect a harshness but it definitely seemed like any possible polyphenol harshness was minimized. So far, so good.
Well there are two ways to attack this. One is to start low and work higher little by little, until you get a hint of what is unpleasant to you. Or start high and work low. I would go the first one and start at 50-60mgl and slowly work up until you find your diminishing return number. I would strongly reocmmend the sulfite test strips, and would try and not have more than 20ppm sulfites post boil.
The sulfur issues are most certainly an issue of to high a dose of SMB and not a lack of copper. Remember SMB is a bandaid, and the least amount you can use to achieve the results you want the better.
I tried the SMB in Strong Bitter recipe I use all the time. Pre boiled mash and sparge water and quick cooled to their respective temps. I had to use my copper IC as that’s all I have but I did clean it well and soaked it in vinegar along with copper whirlpool fittings. I then rinsed the vinegar off with water and wiped dry. I added the SMB and my brewing salts after fast cooling. Pumped cooled water to underlet grains in MT and covered top of mash with foil. SMB dose was .1mg/liter water in mash and about 25 ppm in sparge. I use a direct fire mash and circulate with a copper fitting [pacified with vinegar] under the mash surface. Also made a copper sparge arm that outlets under the mash surface. My questions are,[1] is using the copper that’s pacified going to be ok
[2] should I not circulate the DF mash as much, I run it to maintain and raise temps.[3] is the sparge method described ok, no sparge might be a problem [4] is it ok to add SMB along with regular brewing salts {5] I dry hopped in a purged carboy after fermented ,thoughts on my methods? I bottled this beer just 4 days ago and it smelled great. Very strong floral and some spice from Golding and Willamette hops. The hydro sample tasted great. Sorry for the long post and thanks for posting feedback for us, cheers Mike.
I honestly don’t know. I have never used copper. Kunze is very strict in his avoidance of copper. Brewtan will likely be your friend if you have any copper and/or use tap water.
I recirculate my mash the entire time, and I feel this helps in keeping all fats and lipids in the tun.
Sparging should be fine, Just always use caution when handling it, minimize splashing and stirring.
Absolutely, not a problem.
I am not going to lie, its going to hurt you. When dry hopping in a keg or fermenter its not a bad idea to either have yeast still active, or add some sugar to activate the yeast and scavenge the o2 you created.
Do remember the dosage is based on the brew. Higher ABV and hoppy need more. I am like 6g for 5G on IIPA. You’ll know if you’re using enough tho, the clarity is pretty obvious.
1hr stir plate? New to me. My info says to simply rehydrate cool liquid to avoid clumping and use 10m prior to KO/I do half way into whirlpool. Mfr Rep (Ashland) also confirmed. Interested tho. Honestly, I love the stuff.
My rep told me differently, but maybe because I used it cold side. My method:
boil @ 2 cups of distilled water for 3-4 minutes to remove O2 and to sanitize the water. Cool water below 80F. Take an 8 ounce Kerr canning jar (clean and sanitized) and add 10-15 grams of PVPP and a sanitized stir bar.
Add the cooled water so the water completely fills the jar (the water will be slightly above the rim) and let the air come out of the PVPP. This takes a minute or so as the PVPP absorbs the water. As the air comes out, add water if necessary. Place the cap on jar, this should force the excess water out of the jar (the water will be slightly over the top of the lid due to water tension). This will remove nearly all air from the jar and prevent O2 from getting into your beer.
Put on stir plate for @ 90 minutes. The PVPP needs to be in “aquauous suspension”, which means that none of the tiny beads should be stuck together. Mixing it in with a stir plate does this.
Tip the Kerr jar upside down so the stir bar sticks to the lid, add to beer, mix thoroughly. PVPP works best when it’s mixed in well.
I think I need to back up and ask, what your wort looks like. I will post some pictures of my wort a various stages. I do add whirlfloc but that is the only clearing agent I add in my whole process.
So here is mash:
Preboil:
Boiling:
Post boil:(slight condensation here since the wort is at 40F)
If I mash in a cooler but don’t use any pumps, is it worth the effort to gravity feed the boiled/SMBd strike water into the bed of the grains (basically jamming the silicon tubing down to the base of the cooler through the grain bed) versus just carefully pouring/ladling the strike water on top of the grains maybe with some CO2 pumped on top while I do this?
Going in at 5 mins to the end of the boil, I just rehdrated briefly in water and stirred a bit.
My interested was piqued both by zwiller and reading on the aussie forums about BrewBrite, which was basically carageenan and pvpp.
Again, looking to prevent polyphenols that would require a long lagering time from making it into the keg. I would much prefer the ease of use on the hot side, which is why I tried it there first.
If I need to move water in a pinch, I use a decoction ladle(4qt) and use an easy transfer method of just slowly submerging the ladle and tipping it. No splash, very little uptake.