Yeah, what I pointed out is the natural result of increasing or decreasing pitch rate. Lower rate means more growth, so more esters but maybe healthier yeast, at least in future generations. Higher rate means less growth, but the population might run out of food and living space too quick. They get stressed, make fusel alcohol , and likely crap out and underattenuate. Which sounds like what happened here.
this is all brand new information to me, in almost every brewing literature i have read states that boiling with the lid on is a no no and that a 90 min or at least 75 minute boil to drive off DMS precursors for pilsner malt…so for my next go boil for 45 mins and leave the cover until the last 15 minutes? i never like my boils too violent i always keep a nice churning boil not flying out of the pot boils. from my own knowledge and the knowledge you all shared trying to troubleshoot why this batch failed i think overpitching and not allowing a good healthy growth from the first few days of fermentation and stressing the yeast…next time im gonna try adding sugar in the fermenter, let it mow down on the maltose first and of coarse proper pitch rate…the info about the 45 minute lid on boil scares me, its been embedded in my mind not to do that, but whatever it takes to make a great belgian golden strong i will be open to try…its a dream to have cases of great bgsa just chilling in the cellar
It takes a good 30 mins at heat for the precursor to form DMS, so you can’t drive it off till then. Then 10-15 min is plenty to take the lid off and drive it off. Also, modern Pils malts are processed to have very low precursor levels in the first place. It isn’t a real problem these days.
Again, you want to boil the sugar to sterilize it. The yeast will eat the maltose first, it’s easier for them. Then they’ll get around to the glucose. Kettle sugar is usually added 15 min before the end of boil. That is enough, and the lower wort gravity until then helps increase hop utilization.
Also thats another thing about the shorter, less vigourous boil is hop utilization thats enough to get the goodness out of the hops? again im stuck on the classic 60-90 min boil mindset
Hop utilization maxes out at 60 min, and the research shows you actually start to LOSE bitterness after that. With pellets, you’re getting close to max at 45, but go 60 if you want. I add the bittering addition as FWH, so 45 is good.
Because I think of this beer being more similar to mead in terms of need for aging than a regular beer at this time. Mead at the end of fermentation is hot and boozy at the end of fermentation but 3 months later it is ready to drink.
A beer as strong as Duvel needs a lot of ageing and certainly won’t taste any good at end of fermentation. I’m not convinced any mistakes have been made. Unless is tastes seriously foul, I would let it age.
I’m not sure about the fusels, but in my Belgian beers they usually start out with a smokey type phenol (Westmalle yeast) and a hot burning alcohol and both of those age out with bottle conditioning. I use long bottle conditioning (9 months to a year) for my Belgian Dark Strong.
I would say it might age out. Personally, I would bottle it and see how it turns out. Beers can be way different cold and carbonated than they are from a hydrometer jar sample. Bottling is a hassle, and so is dumping them later, but I would give it the best shot to “do it’s thing” and then if it’s still awful you can dump it.
I try not to dump anything that’s even remotely drinkable… bad beer is a learning experience. Of course if it’s gushing and infected don’t drink it… but if it’s just “off” maybe you can figure out why.
i decided to just let it age in the carboy for a while then then im gonna keg it instead of bottle, if its stays crappy at least it was just one vessel to clean and sanitize, i really want to avoid dumping it so im gonna give it a chance to mellow out for a month or 2 if its still crap then down the drain she goes…again thanks for all the replies
I think the question of ageing is more complicated than that. It depends on the style of beer, packaging method and abv. If you’re making hoppy American pale ale or IPA, it’s best drunk fresh. If you’re force carbonating a keg, again the lifespan of the beer is limited. If you’re bottle conditioning, any beer needs at least 3 weeks. Lagers and Belgians usually need a lot longer. My bottle conditioned lagers can take 3 months to hit their stride. In contrast, a Citra-dry-hopped golden ale is ready in 3 weeks.
There’s also a US Vs British cultural divide when it comes to making craft beer. American brewers pretty much all believe fresh is best. British brewers allow a bit more ageing. When it comes to beers that are heavily dry hopped, I fully agree with you.
I’m not sure how long belgian breweries condition beers, but most of them do bottle condition for an extended period and the beer isn’t considered drinkable until this second fermentation is finished.
Looks nice. Is it bottle conditioned? My beers always need at least 3 weeks to get fully carbed, but some are certainly drinkable at two though flatter.
Beers that have off flavours can take longer to iron out though. By “off flavours”, I don’t mean a serious infection that renders the beer undrinkable - there’s no cure for that.
No it is not bottle conditioned and I agree that bottle conditioning can take some time for conditioning. But IME if you manage fermentation correctly and have a decent recipe you won’t have any off flavors that need conditioned out.
I stopped bottle conditioning many years ago for the very reason that I could not control or monitor changes in flavor during bottle fermentation. I decided I wanted to bring the beer to the state I was looking for, and then package it such that it would largely remain in that state.