Low Oxygen Conclusions?

[klickitat_jim]

Might be the BEST road to take “in New York”…

[bayareabrewer]

@klickitat_jim

Might be the BEST road to take “in New York”…

ugh, I hate metaphors, and this talk about driving in NY is giving me flashbacks of when I actually experienced NY city traffic. How people exist in that city I will never know…

[klickitat_jim]

@bayareabrewer

@klickitat_jim

Might be the BEST road to take “in New York”…

ugh, I hate metaphors, and this talk about driving in NY is giving me flashbacks of when I actually experienced NY city traffic. How people exist in that city I will never know…

People who use analogies too much
are like… oh crap, never mind

[system]

@bayareabrewer

I look at it this way: I live in central NY. My in laws live in Albany. There are many ways to get to Albany from where I live but THE BEST way is the NYS Thruway. Hands down. Now that doesn’t make someone who takes a different route a bad person or a bad driver. It just means that if they want to improve their drive, the NYS Thruway would be the route to go.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

to follow this metaphor, I took this route and didn’t notice much of a difference. In fact the roadway was less preferable than other routes.

Hey man, you tried it and it isn’t for you. I applaud the effort. Many others are trying it and finding great success. Some of them are long time regulars from this forum. Some are people just trying it for the first time and liking the results. At least you tried it out.

[bayareabrewer]

@klickitat_jim

@bayareabrewer

@klickitat_jim

Might be the BEST road to take “in New York”…

ugh, I hate metaphors, and this talk about driving in NY is giving me flashbacks of when I actually experienced NY city traffic. How people exist in that city I will never know…

People who use analogies too much
are like… oh crap, never mind

There’s two things in this world I truly hate

1. lists
   2)irony

[bayareabrewer]

@bayareabrewer

I look at it this way: I live in central NY. My in laws live in Albany. There are many ways to get to Albany from where I live but THE BEST way is the NYS Thruway. Hands down. Now that doesn’t make someone who takes a different route a bad person or a bad driver. It just means that if they want to improve their drive, the NYS Thruway would be the route to go.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

to follow this metaphor, I took this route and didn’t notice much of a difference. In fact the roadway was less preferable than other routes.

Hey man, you tried it and it isn’t for you. I applaud the effort. Many others are trying it and finding great success. Some of them are long time regulars from this forum. Some are people just trying it for the first time and liking the results. At least you tried it out.

Thank you, now please stop telling get people it is the only way to make the best beer.

[klickitat_jim]

I’m fine with the idea that oxygen free brewing if the best, it’s the comment that his way to get to Albany is best that made me have a stroke and gave me pink eye

[system]

People are finding out for themselves that they can make the best beer they’ve ever made with the methods.

Notice I said, “best beer THEY’VE ever made” so as to not offend anyone.

[system]

@klickitat_jim

I’m fine with the idea that oxygen free brewing if the best, it’s the comment that his way to get to Albany is best that made me have a stroke and gave me pink eye

You guys are a tough crowd.

[klickitat_jim]

People are finding out for themselves that they can make the best beer they’ve ever made with the methods.

Notice I said, “best beer THEY’VE ever made” so as to not offend anyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lofty goal, buddy. The only way to not offend ANYONE is to not say anything. Even then it’s no guarantee

[system]

@klickitat_jim

People are finding out for themselves that they can make the best beer they’ve ever made with the methods.

Notice I said, “best beer THEY’VE ever made” so as to not offend anyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lofty goal, buddy. The only way to not offend ANYONE is to not say anything. Even then it’s no guarantee

I think you’re right.

[natebrews]

For what it is worth (almost nothing), I think that people need to give this an honest go if they are going to bother.  When I say that, I mean many batches.  I have done 4 batches now, and the first three were far inferior to the beers I have made in the past (they may get dumped).  However, I don’t blame the process so much as the learning curve to use the process.

If I make 10 batches and the 10th one isn’t any better than what I was doing before, then I’ll be a skeptic as to whether it is worth while.  But without sufficient investigation I don’t think it would be fair to say much with only a few data points to work with.

I just say this because I’m someone that is trying it, is NOT making the best beer I have ever made, but is still pushing forward and see if there is something beyond the fog.

Alright, worthless words over…

[klickitat_jim]

@klickitat_jim

People are finding out for themselves that they can make the best beer they’ve ever made with the methods.

Notice I said, “best beer THEY’VE ever made” so as to not offend anyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lofty goal, buddy. The only way to not offend ANYONE is to not say anything. Even then it’s no guarantee

I think you’re right.

Mic drop… [emoji13]

[JT]

@natebrews

For what it is worth (almost nothing), I think that people need to give this an honest go if they are going to bother.  When I say that, I mean many batches.  I have done 4 batches now, and the first three were far inferior to the beers I have made in the past (they may get dumped).  However, I don’t blame the process so much as the learning curve to use the process.

If I make 10 batches and the 10th one isn’t any better than what I was doing before, then I’ll be a skeptic as to whether it is worth while.  But without sufficient investigation I don’t think it would be fair to say much with only a few data points to work with.

I just say this because I’m someone that is trying it, is NOT making the best beer I have ever made, but is still pushing forward and see if there is something beyond the fog.

Alright, worthless words over…

I’m curious as to which part of the process you felt contributed the most to these beers being far inferior to the beers you made prior?

[natebrews]

I think the two major contributors to it were that the mashing routine is different and so I didn’t hit things quite the way that I normally would.  For sure, the “don’t touch the mash because you’ll mix in oxygen” makes it so adjusting things once you dough in is basically not possible.  Due to that, I infused and then took some measurements and had to run with what it was.  I ended up with some dry spots in the mash, and the temps didn’t hit where they should since I usually adjust with hot/cold water to get where it needs to be.

The other is that I have no method to test the DO of my system, and so I went on the high end of the SMB levels that they recommend.  I did a pale ale, bitter, and a helles.  In the two ales, the sulfur was much too strong which I think is due to me having too much SMB in there to start with.  The end result was things that were a bit biting (and one was pretty eggy/farty for a while).

I had a seperate pH problem, but I don’t think that would have been an issue on the ales since I have made them many times before and already knew what needed to be done for them.

I made a pale ale today, and I reduced the SMB amount significantly (down to 35ppm from 75ppm) and will see how that works out.

I’m pretty sure that I do pick up on the fresh grain (like I just chewed on it) aspect of the wort, and the LODO version of the bitter next to a non-LODO one is notably paler.  The flavors of the finished beers are hard to compare due to the displeasing aspects of the LODO ones I have.

All that said, I think with a few more batches I might get it dialed in where it needs to be and I should get some good comparable results.

[JT]

@natebrews

I think the two major contributors to it were that the mashing routine is different and so I didn’t hit things quite the way that I normally would.  For sure, the “don’t touch the mash because you’ll mix in oxygen” makes it so adjusting things once you dough in is basically not possible.  Due to that, I infused and then took some measurements and had to run with what it was.  I ended up with some dry spots in the mash, and the temps didn’t hit where they should since I usually adjust with hot/cold water to get where it needs to be.

The other is that I have no method to test the DO of my system, and so I went on the high end of the SMB levels that they recommend.  I did a pale ale, bitter, and a helles.  In the two ales, the sulfur was much too strong which I think is due to me having too much SMB in there to start with.  The end result was things that were a bit biting (and one was pretty eggy/farty for a while).

I had a seperate pH problem, but I don’t think that would have been an issue on the ales since I have made them many times before and already knew what needed to be done for them.

I made a pale ale today, and I reduced the SMB amount significantly (down to 35ppm from 75ppm) and will see how that works out.

I’m pretty sure that I do pick up on the fresh grain (like I just chewed on it) aspect of the wort, and the LODO version of the bitter next to a non-LODO one is notably paler.  The flavors of the finished beers are hard to compare due to the displeasing aspects of the LODO ones I have.

All that said, I think with a few more batches I might get it dialed in where it needs to be and I should get some good comparable results.

Thanks.  During my brew day this week, I was taking note of aspects I might need to tweak/change to give this an honest go.  I thought I read that gentle stirring of the mash is ok.  Even underletting the liquor, I find that temps don’t stabilize in a reasonable time without some stirring.

[natebrews]

Yeah, with nothing to go on for experience, I thought I would err on the side of caution and just do no-sparge batches where I fill up the tun (underletting) and let it sit and then drain it.  I figure if the mash temp is off a couple of degrees one way or the other, it isn’t going to be a huge factor compared to what the expected results of low oxygen vs standard oxygen are.

[braufessor]

@natebrews

The other is that I have no method to test the DO of my system, and so I went on the high end of the SMB levels that they recommend.  I did a pale ale, bitter, and a helles.  In the two ales, the sulfur was much too strong which I think is due to me having too much SMB in there to start with.  The end result was things that were a bit biting (and one was pretty eggy/farty for a while).

This is my #1 concern with the trial batches I recently did.  I am worried I am going to end up with a sulphur bomb at the end.  I did two lagers that were probably at the higher end of MB… I did an IPA yesterday where I scaled it back to see how that compared.  Guess I will see.

[natebrews]

On the lager, it wasn’t nearly as pronounced as it was/is on the ales.  I think the lager yeast have a better time with the sulfur than the ale yeasts do.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@natebrews

On the lager, it wasn’t nearly as pronounced as it was/is on the ales.  I think the lager yeast have a better time with the sulfur than the ale yeasts do.

The APA I did lodo came out great with 50 ppm SMB - zero sulfur. My understanding is that 50ppm is the absolute max for ales or you run the risk of sulfur. I used 1056 FWIW.