I am having problems with loss efficiency with no-sparge beers. As a former fly sparger I got an average of 75-78% but now am around 60-67%. I have brewed 8 LO no-sparge beers so far starting at 3 qts per pound grain and have that down to 2.5 qts per pound the last 2 brews. Been trying to get the amount to BK smaller to account for a 60 min and milder boil off. The last beer was an IPA mashed @ 2.5 qts/ pound, water was RO with 250 sulfate and 55 chloride, about 130 calcium total. Also added 1/2 ml Lactic Acid, per Bru-n water ph should be 5.3 and that’s what I got. My grain absorption is .55 qts per pound grain and I had 6.5 gals to BK ending with 5.4 gals at end of boil. What are others using for water to grain ratio, do I go lower? Do I need longer mash times or lower yet mash ph, thoughts? I am liking this no-sparge.
What was you strike volume and pre-boil volume?
Strike amount was 9.125 gals hard boiled down to 9 gals for 14.5 pounds grain. Pre -boil volume was 6.75 gals to BK.
That’s a problem right there: 2.25 gallons MLT losses.
My grain absorption might be a little higher than .55 qts per pound , maybe .6 qts per pound or a little more but that adds up to around two gallons with 14.5 pounds grain.
2.25 gal loss is around .155 gal/lb.
That’s not much different than my experience which is .14 gal/lb including the dead space in my MT.
I have not seen much difference (just a couple of points) in mash efficiency since going to no sparge.
I was averaging around 75% now its around 72%.
So let’s assume you are achieving 100% conversion:
(6.75/9) * 100 = 75%
So I’m assuming you may be having issues with conversion η. Assuming say 80-90%:
0.75 * 0.80 = 60%
0.75 * 0.90 = 67%
Might be a conversion issue. My brewhouse Efficiency in Brewers Friend for this batch was around 60.5%. 14.5 pounds grain with 9 gallon mash got 5.4 gals of 1.063 wort after boil. I start mash around 145* then direct heat and circulate to around 150* and hold for almost an hour, them up to 162* for 30 mins. maybe I need longer mash times?
If you can direct heat I would rest at 144 °F for 15-20 minutes then step to 147 °F for 10 minutes. Then step directly up to 162 °F.
By jumping directly to 150 °F you are missing something like 81% of β activity.
You’ll get there eventually, but by mashing at target β temps for shorter durations you get more active β activity and ultimately better conversion.
When raising temps from 144-5* I raise heat slowly thru the 140* s to 149-150* for IPAs . It may take 20 mins or more to get there. I would think that is enough time in the Beta range. I do start heat and circulate right away at 145* ,maybe I will hold there longer before adding heat and raising to 149-150*. Are you raising heat and circulate to 162* or jumping to it with a water addition? I thought you needed longer times for lower mash temps.
I mash in at or around 144 °F holding for 20 minutes. Then I step up to 147 °F and hold that for 10 minutes. Then I step up to 162 °F and hold that for 30 minutes. Then mash out at 171 °F for 10 minutes.
I’m using a PID controlled direct fire setup.
I’ll try holding longer at 144 before adding heat and keep next rest lower at 147-149 for well attenuated beers. I have a direct fire Me [manual] controlled system so it takes some fine tuning. What mash would you use for a dark beer like Porter or Stout using this system? Thanks for your help.
I mash all my beers the same. I brew a Belgian series: Table Beer, Dubbel, Tripel and Dark Strong. I want the same wort composition in all of them.
I have a soft spot for Belgian beers especially Dark Strong. My Grandma was born there and came to the US during the First World War. Many stories from her about her Dad brewing beer. He had a tunnel under the kitchen that he pulled up floorboards to get to his stash. Before it was legal here in the US. Very good info, again thanks.
Here is a chart that shows why it’s so important not to bypass the various temperatures in the β range:
In addition to the conversion loss and grain absorption, you’re losing about half a gallon of wort in MLT dead space. If you could tip your mash tun over gently after collecting the wort, you’d get most of that back.
Suppose doing a no sparge using a MLT (unable to heat directly) with you could mash in at the lower temp using part of the then step up temp by adding more water at different temps, hitting mash out temp with your last addition to bring up to mash out temp?? Seems like it should work, but would take some tweaking depending on each persons setup. Unless you will lose something by starting with a lower water to grist ratio…
I’m just now getting ready to start doing more all grain and would like to do no sparge, especially if theres not much difference from batch sparging.
I average about 85-90% (100% conversion) efficiency on no sparge for average gravity beers. There is no reason to sparge if you have the room.
Seems like that goes against the math I’ve seen, mostly on Kai’s site. No sparge can be pretty good but there’s a practical limit of brewhouse efficiency due to grain absorption.
Edit: unless you BIAB and squeeze, I suppose. But without it you’re losing a non-negligible amount of first wort and the sugars along with it.
I follow Kai’s numbers for 100% conversion nearly identical. I have .08 for grain absorption, and .125gal of dead space/loss from mash tun to boil kettle. This allows me to hit the wtg ratios I need to get my starting gravity. No biab/squeezing. Verified by a calibrated digital refractometer, volume sensors calibrated to .001 and I manually measure the wort height in the kettle, cause I am OCD like that!
My mash looks like this:
