to be fair soda pop is packed with sugars and sweet will disguise tart just as it disguises bitter.
OK then think about how smooth a dry red wine can taste at a pH of 3.7. Its likely gone through MLF to convert the tarter malic to less tart lactic acid.
Tom,
I don’t think wheat beer tastes tart.
Pepsi has a pH of 2.5, if I remember correctly, and that is 1.5 pH units below a normal wheat beer.
Good point about the organic acid and the tart taste. It must be something else than the low pH that causes this.
Kai
I know there are commercial weizens htat are not tart, but a lot of people report a certain citric tartness in their wheat beers. Some like it, some don’t. I’ve tried to minimize this with mixed results, which is why I’m interested to know the underlying causes.
Don’t forget that the anion associated with the acid can have a profound effect on the perception of tartness. Malic acid is the stuff used in those sour candies. Phosphoric acid is one of the more neutral tasting acids. Lactic acid is somewhere between.
A little late to the party but they started with it at mash temps and put the probe directly in. It then sat for a long time and eventually cooled to almost room temp. I remember it being spot on, 5.2 ph, when it finished.
Thanks, man. That’s how I recalled it, too.
This has always been a very confusing topic to me. I’ve tried to standardize my practice with things Ive read from Kai, Martin and Gordon among others(thanks guys!). What Ive come up with as my standard is this.
Assuming the bulk of my mash time is spent in the 148-158F range.
I will measure pH at room temperature and adjust about .2 for the pH of the mash.
I typically try to achieve a ph of 5.2 - 5.5 at mash temps. So 5.4-5.7 at room temps.
I do 5.2 for beers that I want to have a bit of twang(heffs, wits)
I do 5.5 for beers that I want malty(stouts, scot beers etc)
5.3-5.4 for everything else.
Not sure if my logic is flawed but at least its something that is consistent from batch to batch and I can adjust from there with acid/pickling lime.
i’m doing about the same as you except that i like a little more sharpness so i shoot for 5.2 - 5.4(room temp). i always assumed that i was helping to preserve my beer a little better by keeping a slightly lower ph. interestingly, i was re-listening to an interview with dr bamforth last week and he commented that although beer
“cleanliness” was enhanced with acidity its “freshness” was shorthened. i’m paraphrasing on the terminology. no reference for the data but it was his visit on the brewing network session last year. anyone have input on this subject? does the source of the acidity make a difference(phos or lactic acid versus dark malt with their included anti-oxidants?) so much research to be done!
There is actually data that shows that the beer pH will be higher when the mash pH was lower.
the reason for this is that the low mash pH favors enzymes that increase the wort’s buffer capacity. The yeast has a harder time lowering pH in this environment.
As a result many German breweries do some acidification in the mash and then more in the kettle.
Kai
Ron, sounds like a great talk for the NHC next year.
I’m curious - How would a German brewer acidify a wort that’s already in the kettle? I was under the impression that spiking it directly with an acid would not be allowed according to the Reinheitsgebot.
With wort soured throug lactic bacteria from malt.
Kai
Kai can likely speak to this more authoritatively, but I’m under the impression that most German breweries don’t worry about the R’gebot.
No, they still do. I’m not exactly sure what the legal situation is, but beer brewed in Germany has to comply with the RHG to be called beer. Imported beer may not. However, the most value that brewers see in following the RHG is its marketing value. You don’t want to be the first brewery who does not follow it. There was some severe backlash last when in 2006 Bitburger mentioned that they would consider rice and corn if the barley harvest doesn’t supply enough malt. They had to release a statement saying “the purity law is untouchable”.
Germans are very inventive when it comes to complying with the purity law yet being able to advance brewing technology. Just look at CO2 hop extract it complied with the purity law b/c fermentation CO2 is used for extracting the resin.
Kai
Thanks, Kai!