step infusion mash for german pils

[Brewday]

@chumley

Is it time to start another decoction thread?

…or a picobrew triangle test!

[denny]

@chumley

Is it time to start another decoction thread?

No.  I know what I’ve found.

[denny]

@denny

I couldn’t tell any difference from a single infusion at 148 for 90 min.

+1

So just to clarify- no difference in body, malt character, head retention, or anything else as compared to a single infusion mash?

This is what I intend to be looking for with a recipe I’ve made many time with single infusion at 148-149f.

Not that I have been able to see in repeated tests.  I urge you to make this an experiment you do.  Brew exactly the same beer (same bags of grain and hops if possible) both ways and do a blind triangle.  Don’t take my word for it, decide for yourself.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@denny

I couldn’t tell any difference from a single infusion at 148 for 90 min.

+1

So just to clarify- no difference in body, malt character, head retention, or anything else as compared to a single infusion mash?

This is what I intend to be looking for with a recipe I’ve made many time with single infusion at 148-149f.

I did rests @ 145 and 158 for German pils before and noticed very little difference body and flavor wise to the 148/90 min single infusion. Head retention may have been a little better with the step, maybe not. I’m sure step mashers probably feel differently.

[wort-h.o.g]

@denny

@denny

I couldn’t tell any difference from a single infusion at 148 for 90 min.

+1

So just to clarify- no difference in body, malt character, head retention, or anything else as compared to a single infusion mash?

This is what I intend to be looking for with a recipe I’ve made many time with single infusion at 148-149f.

Not that I have been able to see in repeated tests.  I urge you to make this an experiment you do.  Brew exactly the same beer (same bags of grain and hops if possible) both ways and do a blind triangle.  Don’t take my word for it, decide for yourself.

Seems like best approach. I’m certain if there’s something dramatically different I could taste or perceive , I would know it. But perhaps more subtle differences do require a more objective testing and evaluation ( blind triangle) .  Really no extra effort to step so worth my time I think. I will have to sharpen my knowledge on setting up the blind triangle with some beer friends.

[BrewBama (Dwain)]

@Brewday

@brewsumore

I mash in a picnic cooler and do 10-gal batches and so far have mostly avoided step mashes.  I do that to keep from getting screwed up, since I can control a single step quite easily, and calculated additions (infusion water volume + temp) in the past for multiple infusions, as calculated in ProMash, didn’t come close enough to hitting the targeted mash temps the first try.

I had to train myself to add ~5° to a second infusion vs what beersmith says.  I write my temps and rest times on a dry erase board and just go off of that.  Might be something in my profile setup, but everything else is fine so I’ll leave it alone.

I’ve only done one multi step infusion and thought it was just me and my system. Glad to hear others say this. My next brew I’ll adjust by 5*F.

[denny]

@BrewBama

@Brewday

@brewsumore

I mash in a picnic cooler and do 10-gal batches and so far have mostly avoided step mashes.  I do that to keep from getting screwed up, since I can control a single step quite easily, and calculated additions (infusion water volume + temp) in the past for multiple infusions, as calculated in ProMash, didn’t come close enough to hitting the targeted mash temps the first try.

I had to train myself to add ~5° to a second infusion vs what beersmith says.  I write my temps and rest times on a dry erase board and just go off of that.  Might be something in my profile setup, but everything else is fine so I’ll leave it alone.

I’ve only done one multi step infusion and thought it was just me and my system. Glad to hear others say this. My next brew I’ll adjust by 5*F.

When I do step mashes, I don’t bother with calculations since I have yet to be able to find a way to do it accurately.  I just stir in boiling water until I hit the temp I’m going for.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@denny

When I do step mashes, I don’t bother with calculations since I have yet to be able to find a way to do it accurately.  I just stir in boiling water until I hit the temp I’m going for.

Same thing I did when I step mashed.

EDIT -  To hit volumes, I measured the exact volume of the mash runnings and used just the amount  of sparge water I needed to hit my target post boil volume.

[brewsumore]

[quote author=denny

When I do step mashes, I don’t bother with calculations since I have yet to be able to find a way to do it accurately.  I just stir in boiling water until I hit the temp I’m going for.

[/quote]

Denny, does that include at dough-in?

[denny]

@brewsumore

[quote author=denny

When I do step mashes, I don’t bother with calculations since I have yet to be able to find a way to do it accurately.  I just stir in boiling water until I hit the temp I’m going for.

Denny, does that include at dough-in?

[/quote]

No, using Promash and my experience I can get very accurate strike temps.  But after that, the cooler’s design to eliminate temp differences means that no software I’ve tried has been able to accurately predict water (or decoction) volumes and temps.  At that point, it"s easier to just heat up more than I need and add as I watch the temp.

[brewsumore]

@denny

@brewsumore

[quote author=denny

When I do step mashes, I don’t bother with calculations since I have yet to be able to find a way to do it accurately.  I just stir in boiling water until I hit the temp I’m going for.

Denny, does that include at dough-in?

No, using Promash and my experience I can get very accurate strike temps.  But after that, the cooler’s design to eliminate temp differences means that no software I’ve tried has been able to accurately predict water (or decoction) volumes and temps.  At that point, it"s easier to just heat up more than I need and add as I watch the temp.

[/quote]

doh!  That was the obvious answer.  I would just need to calculate a low qts water to lbs grain ratio at dough-in, to ensure that I end up with an estimated full ending mash volume based on the number of step infusions.

Thanks!

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

[brewsumore]

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Thanks for the tip!

[denny]

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Sounds good.  The times I’ve done a 3 step, with a protein rest, I start at 1 qt./lb.

[wort-h.o.g]

@denny

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Sounds good.  The times I’ve done a 3 step, with a protein rest, I start at 1 qt./lb.

man that had to be a bugger to stir in well.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@denny

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Sounds good.  The times I’ve done a 3 step, with a protein rest, I start at 1 qt./lb.

Now I left out the protein rest. Seemed like the verdict was mixed at best on protein rest, with malts being so modified. So I only rested @ 145 and 158F.

[Brewday]

@denny

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Sounds good.  The times I’ve done a 3 step, with a protein rest, I start at 1 qt./lb.

Now I left out the protein rest. Seemed like the verdict was mixed at best on protein rest, with malts being so modified. So I only rested @ 145 and 158F.

I’ve done a couple of protein rests with Avangard Pils and I got even better extraction than I usually would with that malt, which I think most of us are finding to be higher to begin with.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@Brewday

@denny

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Sounds good.  The times I’ve done a 3 step, with a protein rest, I start at 1 qt./lb.

Now I left out the protein rest. Seemed like the verdict was mixed at best on protein rest, with malts being so modified. So I only rested @ 145 and 158F.

I’ve done a couple of protein rests with Avangard Pils and I got even better extraction than I usually would with that malt, which I think most of us are finding to be higher to begin with.

Thanks for the info. I’ve heard of protein rests even hurting head retention. Did you notice any issue there? I’m assuming not.

[Brewday]

@Brewday

@denny

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Sounds good.  The times I’ve done a 3 step, with a protein rest, I start at 1 qt./lb.

Now I left out the protein rest. Seemed like the verdict was mixed at best on protein rest, with malts being so modified. So I only rested @ 145 and 158F.

I’ve done a couple of protein rests with Avangard Pils and I got even better extraction than I usually would with that malt, which I think most of us are finding to be higher to begin with.

Thanks for the info. I’ve heard of protein rests even hurting head retention. Did you notice any issue there? I’m assuming not.

Not at all, but the third rest @~158° might have offset that.

[jonhughey_att.net (HoosierBrew)]

@Brewday

@Brewday

@denny

FWIW, when I did the same, I think I used ~ 1.3 qts/lb for the 145 rest, then slowly added the boiling water to raise to the 158 rest.

Sounds good.  The times I’ve done a 3 step, with a protein rest, I start at 1 qt./lb.

Now I left out the protein rest. Seemed like the verdict was mixed at best on protein rest, with malts being so modified. So I only rested @ 145 and 158F.

I’ve done a couple of protein rests with Avangard Pils and I got even better extraction than I usually would with that malt, which I think most of us are finding to be higher to begin with.

Thanks for the info. I’ve heard of protein rests even hurting head retention. Did you notice any issue there? I’m assuming not.

Not at all, but the third rest @~158° might have offset that.

Cool, thanks !