If I am reading this correctly, force carbonating via the beverage-out post rather than the gas-in post is the superior method, resulting in less DO. Do I have that right?
My understanding is that you have to have a spunding valve set to your target pressure ( or usually a bit higher – overpressure) and bubble the CO2 through at a higher rate, release it to the atmosphere. Without a carbonation stone, I can’t imagkne this would be efficient at home.
At the risk of burning everyone out on this topic, here’s an update after having a couple of pints. It’s still a great beer, and one I’d be happy to have made in the past, or even now if my aims were different. The friend who has the other keg as well as one of the best palates I’ve encountered said it could pass for Sculpin. But it’s not the same beer as it was last week.
Full disclosure: this was intended to be a Trillium “clone”, and thanks to JC’s forthcomingness online, the recipe was dead on.
In contrast to the smooth citrus flavor and aroma that was there in the first few days, this tastes like a different type of IPA. Bitterness has increased, as well as the “rough” quality of the hops. The alcohol content has become more apparent as well. Hop aroma increased some since the last test due to more compounds settling and more carbonation, but I expect this to be offset by further staling. The bitterness has emphasized the grapefruit flavor over all others, and also muted the perceived sweetness (even though apparent attenuation was 80%) that was there before bitterness/roughness returned.
The thing I think is the most interesting is that most of my beers were not all that drinkable in the first few weeks before the process improvements that I’ve made over time. Conditioning always brought on a mellowing that brought flavor balance together and the final product was well appreciated because of the journey. Tasting what I had out of the fermenter this time is what lead to this disappointment, and I think that – for good or bad – oxidation could be the great equalizer. My goal (and it may not be everyone’s) is to replicated what this beer was like before that.
I have more theories. Oxidation of beta acids increase bitterness. Volatile compounds that are unpleasant get further reduced. Things even out in the end… wort wants to become beer, after all. But the effects that made poor beer more drinkable after time also seem to have made amazing beer more average.
This is not a knock in any way, and it mirrors my experience nearly exactly. The U guys beat the hell out of beer and can’t tell a difference, I agree in the fact that pre-low oxygen I could do the same.
HOWEVER, brewing low oxygen, you can’t even look at the wort wrong and it then goes poof into a “normal” beer. So why strive to do what we do, when the slightest thing turns the beer back to normal like Cinderella at midnight? Because once you taste beer with no oxygen, you are forever tainted and will go to any length to make that stick around. Narvin’s reaction, resonated immediately with me, because I have been there. Thats what prompted the low oxygen brewing question, the differences are so dramatic now. I just hope someday you all get to taste that! It’s un-explainable, to those who have not.
I hear you, and remember you saying that spunding was one of the biggest difference makers. I will find out on the next batch.
On the other hand, in your opinion what do you think of the copper specifically in terms of the hop flavor and the effects post-carbonation? Given the use of some other anti-oxidants as well as brewtan b, do you think this would have a large effect on hop flavor due to accelerated oxidation?
It’s tough to say. I eliminated all my copper prior to low oxygen so I can’t comment. I know a lot of low oxygen folks still have copper chillers and have success so my guess in this case is the ferment to gravity, and force carb. In my force carb days of low oxygen, it was almost exactly what you described.
If you spent the time and effort and created one of the best beers you ever brewed, wouldn’t it be a bummer to see it ruined by the O2 content of your CO2?
Next batch will be transferred to the keg on day 4 with dry hops and spunding valve. It will be interesting to see how it ages. Not surprisingly, natural carbonation at the end of fermentation is recommended by JC from Trillium.