Mash in and vorlauf usually takes a lot more time in a commercial brewery than in a home brewery so commercial mash times by themselves are quite misleading.
Also what may be true with 2-row may not be true of adjuncts depending on gelatinization, insoluble protein content, etc.
+1
Hi Denny! What type of characteristics are you seeing from a 90 minute mash? Or - simply - what are the benefits that you see in your beers? I ask because prior to having this conversation about a 15 minute mash, I was actually thinking of going to 90. I’ve been averaging 75. Thanks!
I think the critical question here is how long it takes to go from lautering to boiling. If it takes 10 min to lauter and 30 min to come to a boil then the wort is spending at least 30 min in the conversion temperature range - and undergoing a pseudo-step mash, so there certainly shouldn’t be any attenuation issues.
What have the breweries that you have worked at do? Your pro experience is of interest, as time tied up in the mash tun is money at a production brewery.
IME, it’s very equipment-specific. I’ve done “rests” as short as 15 min and as long as 45, but every brewery I’ve worked at has had at least 30 min lauters, with most if not all of that time being at conversion temperatures.
I’m staying tuned for results. 60 minute mashed are fine for me. I take my time and make a big breakfast during the mash. However, if this observation of a 15 minute mash is accurate, this could open the doors for more weekday, evening brews.
North American base malt?
For ales, always. Generally a Continental pils malt for lagers.
I am in the 90 minute saccharifiction rest camp. I prefer the flavors that develop over a ninety minute rest to those obtained from shorter rest periods. Like others, I am very busy in the brew house during that wait.
What other criteria matters, Dave? I’ve tried mash lengths from 30 min. to 2 hours and I simply prefer the way the beers turn out when I use a longer mash. Should I ignore my own tastes and do a shorter mash because a book or another person says that you can?
I get a more “digestible”, less dextrinous beer. It’s more about body than anything, although the effect on body interacts with other factors like hopping.
Yup.
I agree that taste is what matters, that’s the bottom line. What I truly meant to say is, don’t be afraid to experiment outside of your norm. Don’t get stuck in a mentality of “I’ve always done it that way and it works so I’m not going to try anything different.” That’s what I meant to say. Sorry for not being more clear.
I started out doing 60 minute rests and moved to doing 90 minute rests after I read that it was a common practice in British breweries. British breweries have traditionally used well modified barley. The rationale behind the 90 minute rest is that there are flavor-oriented chemical reactions occurring in the mash in addition to hydrolysis, and it takes longer for these reactions to occur than it takes for conversion to occur. Whether or not that claim is true is debatable. However, if one examines how distillers mash, one discovers that there must be more than a grain of salt to this claim.
Listen to the Feb 10, 2011 Basic Brewing Radio for a tasting of beers done with short, medium, and long mash times. I listened to it some time back, but there are some conclusions they draw.
http://www.basicbrewing.com/index.php?page=basic-brewing-radio-2011
And THAT I completely agree with, That’s how I reached my own conclusion.
For the typical range of mash thicknesses that may be true, but you do reach a point in really thin mashes (~4 qt/lb) where you will see a difference. I had to increase my mash length for session beers to be able to reach the same efficiency that I get on bigger beers. This should not be an issue for most fly- or batch-sparge brewers, but it is something no-sparge/BIAB brewers may need to keep an eye out for.
Well sure, throw 10 pounds of malt into Lake Michigan and see how long it takes for that low concentration of enzymes to convert your starches. I’m talking about ratios “within reason” which I suppose it never hurts to specify. 3 qt/lb is probably a good limit applicable to most brewers except maybe some of them crazy BIAB brewers. I love BIAB and use it most of the time but I still mash at 1.75 qt/lb and add the rest of the water later.
The problem I see is getting Lake Michgan up to 140º without the proper permits.