yeah I guess solar just isn’t cost effective. that’s probably why walmart is converting all of there stores to solar right? Those notorius big spenders.
It may be just for advertising that they’re “Green”. That seems to mean, so much to some people.
Also, you know that if Wal-Mart is doing it, they’re getting great discounts, possibly some for free, just so the manufactures can advertise that fact. If I was starting a new brewery, I’d concentrate on the many things you have to have to brew beer. Creative power can come later. Also, you still have to run electrical lines to those many panels on the roof. If you plan ahead, a lot of your electrical work can be converted later.
Getting back on thread, what kind of distance are we talking about here? Because that’s what will determine if 3/4" pipe / tubing and the OP’s pump will make it.
As far as water and power, you could look at running an “umbilical” from the basement to the brewery. You could run permanently fixed power, water (and wort if you want) lines above ground. This would be closer to the OP’s original plan, without digging, and as long as the ultimate outlet of the pipe is lower than the inlet, siphon could still be used. You could also combine ideas, with a manifold at the brewery, and short length of tubing that lets you select which you;re coming from / going to. Biggest issue I see is the pain of sanitizing before, and cleaning afterwards.
Walmart may be getting tax credits or other benefits for doing it. Their stores also have an enormous foot print so they’re getting a lot more panels on there than you would on a typical-sized building.
On some of the newer residential “green” buildings, you can get enough power to run an electric hot water heater. But the payback in savings vs. upfront cost is not really there. Grants and other “free money” also are out there to help, but they also do not cover the full cost.
Geothermal is a more effective source, but also cost-prohibitive.
As bo says, a lot of times it’s done just to be “green” or perhaps to get LEED certification as a marketing tool. Or because people truly believe that the investment is making a difference.
Distance = about 15-20 meters, diagonal.
Solar = a great idea but won’t provide nearly the amount of power I need with the roof size I’m going to have. 8 m^2 won’t do for four 4,5kilowatt heating elements, let alone the pumps. In the new house, whenever that gets built, of course I’ll throw some panels on because yes, there are plenty of credits, but the best thing to have is wind turbines.
As far as digging the trench goes, I’ll do it by hand, it’s not very far, and I’ve got a post hole digger that’ll make it easier than with a shovel alone.
Could you give me more details on what an umbillical would look like? I’m concerned about above-ground because I don’t know what gauge I’m going to be needing for that kind of power draw, and I’m nervous about having the water line next to the power line, fraying, etc…
A 20 meter, flexible cable, capable of supplying the power for 18kw of heating elements is going to be one big mother.
75’ x 75A (18000W / 240V) needs minimum #6 gauge wire, or 126/0.4 in Europe
This and a Delorean would really help with time management.
Not to be picky, but Europe is mainly 220, so that’s a little more than 80A and that’s only the heaters. An SO #2, 3 conductor flexible cable has an NEC rating of 95amps and I wouldn’t go any less than that for 81 amps.
Is that all you’re needing power for, because even that doesn’t leave you with much excess capacity?
I would think once you add in lighting and possibly heating and cooling of the shed you will be looking at well 100A (Full Disclosure: I did not do any actual math on paper). I don’t think temporary flex cable would be up to the job. Or I should say, I don’t think I would be up to moving that pile of cable too often. 8^) I’d go with something buried just to avoid anymore items in the PITA category.
Paul
I’ll meet you in the middle. EU countries apparently harmonized to 230V in 2008. I was going off the UK at 240 where I grew up. But yes, I wouldn’t want to go any lower than 100A. You’ll need lighting, pumps etc…
I didn’t know that they went to 230V. Interesting. I agree, 100Amp service minimum. I would NOT do that with a flexible cord, but that’s just me. That SO 2/3 is almost 1 1/4" in diameter.
Yup, 230V. Sounds to me like 100Amp is what I’ll need. Time to talk to the electrician… This just got much more expensive.
I’d have him run a 100 amp sub-panel. That way you have a little room for expansion. Of course that assumes that your main panel can handle it. If not, then it gets really expensive and you might be better off to run new service directly to your brewing area. Your electrician will hopefully guide you in the most economical direction.
I -THINK- that I’m on 100amps at the house right now, would that do, or does it need to be higher? Figure I can’t run the oven and blender when I’m brewing, which is no biggie. I put in a call to an (ENGLISH SPEAKING HALLELUJAH) electrician so we’re gonna see how it goes. I’d like the whole project to cost less than $5k, does this sound reasonable? Note that this includes me pouring a slab and doing the framing/roofing/tiling/etc myself, so cost other than electric is going to be materials. I’m getting pretty excited about this, as it seems that it’s entirely doable and is one big step towards a “real” brewery. Might even have to get a TV in there.
You can’t run a 100 amp sub panel off of a 100 amp main panel. There are calculations that determine the normal load based on the appliances, HVAC, etc. you have in your home.
Something to think about is that you’re running 2 heaters in your HLT and 2 more to your boil kettle. At least I thought I saw that some place. Do you need to run both of them at the same time? It would certainly be good to have that capability, but you’re probably going to need to upgrade your main panel and it starts getting expensive when you do that. It could possibly eat up a lot of your $5k.
I don’t have to run them both at the same time, no, at least not if running them both at the same time means I’d have to pay an extra $3k. But I see what you mean. Is it technically possible to split off the line from the utility company trunk and have two separate meters? I could see how that would potentially be expensive, but perhaps it’d be less than the first option…
They probably sized the feeder lines based on your meter base, so no, they couldn’t expect them to carry twice the current. However, unless the transformer that feeds you house, and likely others, is not at it’s capacity, then they could run new lines to a new meter base.
Look at you bill and see if they hit you with a customer charge each month. I get popped with $20 so another meter is automatically an additional $20 even if I didn’t use even 1 kwhr. Not a deal breaker, but it all adds up.
You might want to clue Sierra Nevada in…
Our base electric scope for retail spaces is a 200 amp service. This covers lighting, hot water heater, HVAC, etc. Everything is electric.
For a 1000 SF Subway sandwich shop, we upgraded to 400 amp. Again, everything is electric including their ovens.
I’m not sure how big your brewery is, but you don’t want to go and size the electric to the minimum you need. You ought to plan on excess capacity as adding it later is expensive.
You are correct that this is not the type of power you want to be hooking and un-hooking with temporary cables. Set aside the risk of electrocution, those would massive cables that require special connections. I doubt running these as a temporary umbilical above ground would meet any sort of code.
FWIW, adding 400 amps right now, going from a main electric room to switch gear and a meter bank, is going to cost us over $5000 alone. There’s a lot more power and equipment there than you need and it is also requiring ComEd engineers to layout and approve. If the switch gear is too far from the electric room, the main lines need to be encased in concrete. My point being, electric can snowball.