W34/70 is “widely known for its slow start” because people don’t pitch enough yeast based on advise of fellow brewers. Your three packs in 10 gal was ~86-90% of the recommendation (depending on who’s calculation you use). Good on ya. Better than most.
For some reason it’s looked highly upon to make beer with less dry yeast. Not sure why.
Will it make beer? Yep. Eventually.
Bry-97 is another with a reputation for a slow start. I’ve experienced 36 hr lag with it using the ‘one pack a batch’ routine. Likewise, I don’t get those long lags with it anymore either because I pitch more than ‘one pack a batch’. I have numerous batches graphed from start to finish to confirm my results.
Dry yeast is the only commodity we use that is measured in ‘packages’. If the package was 5 or 15 grams would those be the measurements to use?
I buy lactic acid in a bottle, am I supposed to use it all? No.
If I need a pound and a half of grain will I settle for half a pound? I doubt it.
We calculate and measure the proper amounts to use for our application and desired results.
Dry yeast is no different. But for some reason ‘one pack a batch’ has been the answer regardless of wort volume or gravity.
Pitching rates are guidelines. Any lag under 48 hours isn’t really anything to stress about. All of brewing is variants and gradients. I prefer repeatable results without extended lag times, which is why I think pitching rate guidelines are important. For those that come in asking for advice I will always – from now until my very last post – recommend standard pitching rates as a way to reach those repeatable results. As I said in my reply - “It will be fine”. Personally, I’d pitch more yeast.
I hear what you are saying. You won’t hear me saying 2 sachets is overpitching, as I don’t think it is with originally pitched beers.
The only overpitching I have experienced is pitching directly on a yeast cake (immediately after racking from the primary) with no yeast removed from the prior batch. I experienced a flaccid, lifeless beer and don’t want to repeat that, so I remove yeast for repitching routinely now (by measurement for repitching).
I pitched two packs of dry W-34/70 into 5.5 gallons of 61F wort on Sunday and set my Immersion Pro to 53F. The Immersion Pro took five hours to bring the wort down to 63F in a cold garage (I am using it more to prevent the temperature from going below 53F). I did not see actively until Monday evening. I had strong fermentation activity by Tuesday.
I guess I’m the odd man out…2 packs of 34/70 in 7 gallons, and one pack in 3 gallons. I guess 6 packs should have been pitched to avoid my 48 hour lag time. The OG was 1.052.
Now with harvested 34/70, there is little or no lag. Maybe a couple hours at most. But I use nearly 1 qt of fresh slurry per 5 gallons.
Yes, over pitching is what I do on a regular basis.
What are your observations behind this? Just curious. I haven’t used all the Lallemand strains, but the five I’ve used made great beer without aeration.
This is what I think the real issue is. Lag time isn’t a problem unless it leads to a problem in the finished beer, such as off flavors or underattenuation. If your only issue is a longer lag time, but the beer turns out fine, then there’s no real issue.
Just to circle back, it’s now active. Yeah, I can’t believe I underpitched this. Not sure what I was thinking, other than I wasn’t. With the last two batches I made lazy mistakes. Oh well, it’s just homebrewing.
48 hours with dry yeast, especially with dry lager yeast, is definitely not uncommon. I think lag time is a good way to gauge pitching rates and achieve consistent results. A lot of brewer’s experiences are anecdotal - my anecdotal experience is that you don’t want too long of a lag. You also don’t want too short of a lag. A four hour lag can often be more of a concern than a 48 hour lag.
When I was brewing professionally lag was taken pretty seriously and tracked every batch because it was a good way to gauge consistency. Usually a standard 12 hours was the lag we were looking for. I definitely don’t think it is as important with homebrewers to worry about lag time that much - though there’s also no reason why it can’t be. Regardless, 48 hours is starting to reach the moment of concern. As a homebrewer, if I see no sign of fermentation at 48 hours - no wisps of foam and no airlock bubbles - I’m looking to pitching more yeast. And i like to see no more than a 24 hour lag, personally, even with dry lager yeast.
But if I see a few signs of fermentatioon at 48 hours - there’s no stress. No “heartburn” as someone put it. Thanks Nexium My .02.
And for what it is worth, I see very little difference in the length of time for fermentation overall. Having a Tilt Hydrometer, it is interesting to see fermentation beginning well before seeing any visible evidence of that in the wort.
As I mentioned, it’s about consistent results. I don’t want a super short lag any more than I want a super long lag. To flip the coin; if people are not worried about a 72+ hour lag that’s fine. But there’s also nothing wrong with recommending pitching rates to those who are looking for consistency.
Yep, I appreciate that, Keith. Just that the lag hasn’t added to the overall fermentation time period of the “lagged” batch, or at least not appreciably in my experience. In other words, the time from pitching to racking to the serving keg is equal in total number of days, even taking into account the longer lag period. YMMV, of course.
I don’t disagree at all. In fact, as I stated, I’d rather have a 48 hour lag than a 4 hour lag. And I certainly wouldn’t tell someone their beer is ruined after a 72 hour lag or even a 5 day lag. I’d never say “well that 3 day fermentation has to produce a beter beer than a 5 day”. That would be foolish.
A lag time is just a goal post. It can be different for every brewer. If 72 hours is your jam go with that. If 5 days is it, cool. But everyone is going to have one and everyone is entitled to give their opinion.
From my empirical standpoint pitching rates help rather than hinder understanding how much yeast needs to be pitched. They should not be immutable – they are only guidelines. But they help avoid the problem associated with underpicthing as well as pverpicthing. So I’m not sure why they have suddenly become discredited on this forum. That’s all I’m pushing back against.
My .02.