I appreciate your pursuit for ruby red. I too am caught up in going for the perfect red color.
This batch is currently cold crashed in my fermentation fridge. It’s sitting at just over 34 F, has been for about a day now. I’ll gelatin later today, keg it in a couple of days.
At the moment, it looks awfully dark, and quite brown. Of course, in a dark basement, in a carboy, is way different than in a pint glass… so we shall see. I ought to know something by the weekend, though (not just color-wise, but if the beer is actually any good).
Reddish beers are really hard to even judge until they get totally clear, in terms of their final color. I’ve had some with just a touch of haze that looked much redder when they cleared FWIW.
I’ll be taking my first stab at a red ale sometime in the next few weeks:
40% Maris Otter
40% Golden Promise
10% 165L British crystal malt
10% Flaked Barley
Probably an ounce or two of roasted barley for color.
Thinking an ounce of Fuggles at 60, and another ounce at 20 minutes. 1469 for yeast. Hoping it doesn’t turn out brown…you guys have me a bit worried, but it’ll be drinkable no matter the color.
This was my latest recipe for an Irish red
https://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=27354.msg356642#msg356642
The color came in really well, pictures and water profile included
I agree, Hoosier. I won’t know until it’s fully clear and in a glass.
Phil, that sounds tasty, but I doubt it will be super red. 165L British crystal? I’ve never heard of that. Who’s that maltster? I seem to only be able to source British crystal under 100L.
165L is ever darker than Special B. I would guess that it would have dark fruit pretty strong to it?
Bairds. It’s technically not 165L, but somewhere between 135L and 165L.
https://www.morebeer.com/products/bairds-british-crystal-malt-135165l.html
I just typically use it as “dark” caramel malt in my notes. I’ve really been enjoying the results of using a smaller amount of darker crystal malt for color in my British style beers. Just seems to always taste better than using more of a lower color malt.
Thanks, Phil. So the end result is probably similar to Special B, which is delicious - at least in darker beers.
I prefer mid range crystal, myself, as I like caramel in beers more regularly than I like the plum and such… unless it’s a Belgian Strong Dark.
At any rate, I appreciate the illumination!
I tend to get more toffee than plum/raisin…one brown ale a few years ago when I first tried it (in conjunction with either amber or brown malt…can’t remember which…) had such a strong toffee flavor I was almost convinced it was diacetyl…but further experience has taught me that I just overdid it.
Toffee, you say? Really?
One of my absolute white whales is to brew an oatmeal toffee stout without resorting to artificial flavoring. I wanted to do it with grain only, but I’ve decided to allow adjuncts for this.
I can get all kinds of caramel, that’s not an issue. Plenty of c malt plus taking a gallon or so of first runnings and reducing them to a quart or so of syrup will do that.
My issue is that while caramel is an important part of toffee, you also need butter. I’ve tried WLP005, hoping to get it to throw some diacetyl, but that hasn’t worked.
I was planning a brew using a pound and a half of jaggery, as it has some buttery flavor. But your post is giving me some pause.
How much was too much in a five gallon batch?
I’d have to check my notes to give an exact recipe, but if I’m looking at the right recipe on beersmith mobile the draft grist was:
73.7% 7 lbs Maris Otter
21.1% 2 lbs Amber Malt (May have used brown…again, this was a draft)
5.3% 0.5 oz British dark crystal malt
Really reminded my of that saltine cracker/butter toffee/ cookie recipe, if you’ve ever had those.
Five ounces was too much?
Hmm. I may adjust my other c malts down a bit and get me some of this. Worst case, it’s a stout and we call it a layer of complexity. 
Too much Amber. Again, I need to check my notes. I do remember taking pretty good notes for that batch. I was aiming for a copper-colored bitter, ended up with a beer that decidedly brown. This recipe evolved into a more “normal” brown/porter that I’ve rebrewed a few times.
About 5% is what I typically use these days, so now I’m not sure if that was the correct draft recipe. I’ll check back when I can check my notes.
Thanks, I appreciate the input! I may go for some dark crystal AND the jiggery.
Here’s the entire Beersmith text file from the beer, hope this helps:
(BTW, I had no idea that Bell’s Best Brown even existed when I named this beer. The “best” comes from the strength…I was trying to make a bitter, ended up with more of a brown, so I changed the name. And yes, I don’t think Bell’s should have been allowed to trademark that name.)
BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Phil’s Best Brown Ale
Brewer: Phil_M
Asst Brewer:
Style: Special/Best/Premium Bitter
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0) 2/22/15 One day after kegging.
Appearance: Fairly cloudy, some hop particles are evident. Color is a rich red/brown with a dense cream colored head.
Aroma: Herbal hops, toast, cereal, and prunes.
Mouthfeel: Notable astingency, but not unpleasant. Kinda tastes like this may be from the hops. Beer is farly light in body, with a noticable diacetyl slickness.
Taste: Very malty, bready and biscuit-like, very herbal hop flavor. Hops are reminiscent of the taste of pipe tobacco. In fact, pipe tobacco and this beer have a similar astingency. Butterscotch/toffee flavors, not sure which are diacetyl and which are malt.
Recipe Specifications
Boil Size: 7.52 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 4.63 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 16.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 39.8 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 62.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 74.4 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes
Ingredients:
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
11.30 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 1 -
10.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 2 -
1.50 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
7 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.3 SRM) Grain 4 73.7 %
2 lbs Amber Malt (33.0 SRM) Grain 5 21.1 %
8.0 oz Crystal, Extra Dark (Simpsons) (202.0 SR Grain 6 5.3 %
1.000 oz Fuggles [4.90 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 7 19.5 IBUs
0.500 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [6.60 %] - Firs Hop 8 11.9 IBUs
1.00 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 9 -
0.500 oz Fuggle [4.90 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 10 3.2 IBUs
0.430 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [6.60 %] - Boil Hop 11 3.4 IBUs
0.500 oz Fuggle [4.90 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 12 1.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) [124. Yeast 13 -
2.000 oz Fuggle [4.90 %] - Dry Hop 10.0 Days Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 8.0 oz
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 8.22 gal of water and heat to 147.9 147.9 F 90 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min
Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
Perform an open fermentation, either in a plastic bucket or a stainless steel pot. Rack to secondary before the krausen falls.
Did not make a starter.
Mash hit 1.036 at 1hr 10 minutes, and passed a starch test. Performed mash out @ 168 degrees for 10 minutes. Measured pre-boil gravity at mash out was 1.034, measured with a hygrometer and temperature compensated. Something isn’t right with the refractometer, it kept showing varrying readings. (1.030 to 1.040)
Pre boil volume is 7.5ish gallons.
Let first wort hops steep for about an hour prior to boil. (Including temp rise to boil.)
Original gravity 1.042
Pitched one packet of Wyeast 1968 into a fermentation bucket. Fermented open at house temps, 65 degrees daytime, 60 night for an “average-ish” goal of 62.
Having problems keeping fermentation temperatures up. Even with the house set to 70 temps in the bucket only reached 61 degrees. Used a heat pad to raise the temerature of the beer to 68 degrees, as measured with an infra-red thermometer.
Racked to secondary on 2-10-15. Current SG is 1.014. Taste is VERY malty, not much in the way of hops, or bitterness. (It’s not sweet, but not as bitter as I was hoping.) More brown ale like. Diacetal/butterscotch is noticeable. Think I’ll back off on the amber malt, and use more of a lighter crystal malt next time. Mouthfeel is still too heavy, will be interesting to see how this beer is once it’s closer to the final gravity.
Also, this yeast isn’t much of a top cropper, won’t try open fermentation next time.
Once the beer was in secondary, used heat pad to raise tempterature to _____ for diacetel rest. Will re-taste on Thursday to see how this worked. If the beer still isn’t hoppy at this point may consider dry hopping with 2 oz. Fuggles for 7 days.
Kept beer at 70+ degrees for about a day, still has a strong butterscotch taste on 2/13/15. Current gravity is 1.014. Added 2 oz. Fuggles hops to secondary.
2/16/15 Still noticable butterscotch/toffee flavor, but much less than before. SG is 1.011. Will let the beer sit at 72 degrees for another day or two and test again.
2/18/15 Gravity is 1.011, fermentation seems to be complete. Still noticeable toffee/butterscotch taste, though the hops are starting to be noticeable. Starting to wonder if that may be toffee flavors from the extra dark crystal. Will keg as soon as practical.
Kegged on 2/21/15. Pretty sure the diacetyl taste is malt, no noticable slickness.
2/22/15 Added tasting notes, changed name to “Phil’s Best Brown”. Next time I would not dry hop this beer, as it’s more of a brown ale then the bitter I was aiming for.
Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
Thanks for the detailed notes!
Yeah, I’ve got conflicting notes about diacetyl slickness, so idk. I know Samuel Smith’s high diacetyl amounts are responsible for a lot of it’s flavor, so idk.
I love Samuel Smith’s so much. Perhaps I just love diacetyl.
It’s not evil, even if some judges seem to think so. It really can perk up a very low ABV beer.